LGBT children board title

[ArabellaScott]

Given that the Cass Review says social transitioning is not a neutral act, and refers to 'gender incongruent' or 'gender questioning' children, the use of 'trans children' looks startlingly out of date and incorrect on Mumsnet.

The board should be renamed 'LGB and gender questioning children' to better reflect best practice.

The new school guidelines likewise use 'gender incongruent' and 'gender questioning' and not ever 'trans' when referring to children.

This was a recent contribution at the Scottish parliament from the head of the Scottish gender services at Sandyford discussing 'gender care' for young people:

'There is a feeling, which the Cass report also spoke about, that as soon as a child or young person mentions that they are questioning their gender, everyone
goes, “I can’t deal with this. They need to go to the gender service.” They then end up on a waiting listat the gender service.

We know that some of the people on our waiting list are also receiving support from child and adolescent mental health services, that there might have been an intervention from social work and there is no doubt that their GP will be involved
in supporting the family, but they are sitting on a waiting list for the gender service. The problem is that everything is seen through that lens, instead of looking at the entire child or young person.

Shifting the service into a holistic child-centred service with the right professionals who have good experience of working with children and young
people would absolutely be the right thing to do. It would at least tackle the issue of diagnostic overshadowing and might prevent it from happening'
...

'Not everybody who is gender questioning needs an NHS service. I feel very
strongly about that. There are lots of people questioning their gender, but they are just gender questioning; they do not necessarily need an NHS service.'

https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/official-report/search-what-was-said-in-parliament/HSCS-17-09-2024?meeting=16001

Sorry about the formatting. PDFs ...

What has LGB got to do with T though? They are entirely separate entities.

Some young people may be gender questionning as well as LGB but many aren't. If anything we could as easily call the board 'Autistic and T' because the vast majority of trans people I've encountered / worked with have been heterosexual but Autistic, particularly the boys. The girls are more often lesbian or bisexual which is all the more reason to allow them to become comfortable with this without being told they must then be trans.

Agree with PPs.

Two separate boards. One for LGB dc & one for gender questioning/non conforming dc.

This is a politically motivated suggestion rather than one that has, at the heart of it, the well-being of children and their families.

The premise that some are using: 'social transitioning is not a neutral act' is a bit meaningless in the light of its alternative - thwarting and suppressing the chosen social identity of an individual is hardly a neutral act either. Of course neither are neutral acts, it's bizarre to suggest otherwise.

And, although sexuality and gender identity are conceptually distinct, the lived reality for many is not so nice, easy and clear-cut as that. Many young people do wrestle with both these areas as do their families; the issues come up in the same discussions.

You would not be supporting young people or their families by imposing a message board segregation on them that they have to try to choose between.

Of course, I can see how it would make it easier for some to target the gender questioning board though. 🤔🙄

Not a single poster has referred to "thwarting and suppressing the chosen social identity of an individual". This is about children, not adults.

Most of us are parents and we're discussing whether the language needs to change in line with the latest insights into the harm being done to children by imposing the diagnosis "trans" on them rather than acknowledging that they are mentally vulnerable, in the midst of adolescent changes and struggling.

Changing trans to "gender questioning" as the OP suggests recognises that these are children, growing and developing and acknowledging that in the title of the board is helpful.

On the contrary. It's a suggestion that MN use the same terminology as the NHS and the government, in the best interests of the wellbeing of children who are questioning their gender identity.

Nobody is suggesting 'suppressing and thwarting' anything, that's absurd. And calling it 'segregation' is daft. It's a message board! Anyone could post on either board.

I can see the arguments on both sides for splitting the board into two and for keeping it as one board with a different name.

I cannot see any argument at all for calling children 'transgender'.

The government explicitly caution against this, and Cass and the NHS use 'gender questioning'.

Because that's what parents will google when they need help.

I can see that. However, until recently, transactivists have been allowed to dictate the narrative and even the treatment of these vulnerable children. This seems to be a small step in redressing the balance and recognising children's protected characteristic of age. They're young, not fully emotionally, intellectually or physically developed and are entitled to the protection from age inappropriate life changing beliefs that they're ill equipped to analyse and understand. The labelling of these children as "trans" from an early stage does them a great disservice.

It's very telling that many of the small number of objections make no reference to children's vulnerabilities, just catastrophising this as an "anti - trans" act.

Yes, the people who use the phrase 'transgender children' are activists.

Statutory bodies, government and health services, use 'gender questioning'.

I assume nobody is suggesting that the NHS start using 'transgender children' because that's what people will google?

Putting a block on parents potentially accessing more neutral support and differing viewpoints isn't the answer though.

It's just going to drive parents to sites such as Mermaids.

Having to choose one board or another is a nonsense argument since anyone can move between boards available or of interest to them

I have a gender questioning child and agree with the suggested change.

You’re missing the point - all reports out there that are validated and use in schools no longer use the outdated and incorrect term ‘trans child’.
Sexual orientation has absolutely nothing to do with gender identity so why are you bunching them together? (Rhetorical questions there). Nobody is saying children who claim a ‘trans’ identity dont exist. They are saying those children are girls or boys who are gender questioning.

This is a support site for parents, not somewhere to access medical information.

Parents who need that support will more than likely google "Trans children", that doesn't make the parents activists.

You can say what you like about 'correct terminology' etc, but your suggestion will prevent those who need it accessing the support here, and drive them to other sites who have different motives.

You’ve got that the wrong way round - forcing the T onto LGB is a massive political statement. There are many LGB groups. BTW, men who claim to be women then claim to be lesbians are NOT actual lesbians.

Yes and I personally know more and more LGB who are pulling away from T. Like many women they started with a relaxed Be Kind approach, only to quickly see that there wasn't enough kindness in the world to satisfy some of the absolute narcissists involved in extreme trans ideology - ironically most of them heterosexual men!

That is one argument for an additive approach, I suppose. 'LGBT and gender questioning children'.

But it does end up putting MN on one specific side of a very contentious issue.

And the suggestion that there are separate boards for parents of LGB and gender questioning children doesn't?

I'm still unclear what "problem" is being fixed with this suggestion. It's not as if MN has large numbers of trans activists giving parents bad advice. To the contrary, most support boards are very sensible and balanced. It's what MN is for, at its heart.

Not really, it just means they are remaining accessible and supportive.

I think it's possible to rename a page but put in the page's 'metadata' key words that might be used to search for it. For example, if a page was about Keir Starmer (that was the title), it could have 'Prime Minister' in the metadata and then would be searchable on that term.

PP using the term 'gender non-confirming'. Is that typo? Do you/they mean 'non-conforming'? I prefer 'gender questioning' because people can decide not to conform to gender stereotypes without ever questioning their gender identity.

That is one argument for an additive approach, I suppose. 'LGBT and gender questioning children'.
But it does end up putting MN on one specific side of a very contentious issue.

Would my compromise suggestion upthread - iirc 'LGB, gender questioning or trans children' work?

The url of the board would presumably stay the same (as with FWR whatever name is imposed on it) , I don't know if that would make it show in searches for lgbt anyway.

As the impact of the Cass report ripples out and every school and every HCP uses 'gender questioning' for young people and children to more accurately and holistically encompass all young children who are considering their identity, the use of a phrase like 'transgender children' looks increasingly partisan and frankly dubious.

The prefix "trans" should never prefix the word/s child/children.

Children are not "trans" anything.

"Trans" needs to be disassociated from "gender questioning".

"Gender questioning" used to be the bread and butter work of feminists.

"Gender questioning" should be a process of critical thought, not a one way trip up a medical and surgical pathway.