Disability hate on MN

[IClaudine]

Hi MNHQ

Since Sunak’s announcement on disability benefits, there has been a big increase on MN in hostility towards people who receive then.

The abuse, hate and outright lies (my neighbour’s son’s cousin’s wife climbs Mount Everest but gets PIP etc) being spewed on MN towards disabled people, a group with protected characteristics, has been dreadful and very distressing for disabled people and their loved ones to read,

Please can you do something?

Here is a small selection of the threads where the disability benefit bashers have paid a visit and had a field day. There may be more, but I can’t face searching for them!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064828-to-be-terrified-about-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share  

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5065470-people-who-work-have-anxiety-too?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5066670-aibu-to-hope-that-able-bodied-people-will-support-disabled-people-against-the-tory-attack-on-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5064856-pip-vouchers-to-replace-money?reply=134966246&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5066331-do-you-feel-bad-for-receiving-a-high-amount-of-uc?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I don't think that MN is a safe place for lots of other people as well.

One has to wonder why people would obsessively post on certain topics without any skin in the game, especially when they make statements that are blatantly incorrect. Their knowledge tends to be poor. Anyone can post on any topic but we see the same names who are like a dog with a bone. They’re not prepared to listen or learn, just spouting their uninformed views. What do they get from it, I wonder?

Free speech does not mean freedom from consequences. MNHQ own this website and are entitled to make up the rules. However, I would be interested to see how some of these posts would actually be considered if someone took it higher. I am not saying they should but I am curious.

Something “non ableist” does not mean it is tolerable or palatable. In some ways, I am glad the unpleasant posts remain because it shows that person in their true light and it means people like me get to reply. I’m not asking for censorship, I think the posts should stay so people cannot backtrack.

Yes, and you can bet your bottom dollar MN won't look into that either. Instead, as the GE draws closer, there'll be the usual cosy lunchtime chats with various 'concerned" politicians not answering the questions they don't like

@DimplesToadfoot I'm sorry that you are so upset. Please remember you don't know who these people are, a lot of them are nasty saddos who are just spoiling for a fight on here and want stick the boot in to someone, anyone, because their own lives are lacking for whatever reason. Don't let them upset you. Remember you can just turn off your phone or whatever, or hide the thread or change your username to escape them. They have no affect on you in real life. I get so I've had enough, someone kept having a go at me the other day, they just wouldn't leave it alone. If they met me in real life I bet they wouldn't dare speak to me like that. They hide behind a keyboard. Don't let them make you feel bad. Dh and I claim disability benefits and there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. They can only make you feel bad if you let them x

I've noticed an uptick in ableism, as well as islamophobia and racism in the past few months. I've also reported posts and been told to challenge it myself.

I am so sorry for everyone who has been upset over the past few days. Hopefully MN might come on tomorrow and comment.

@thisiswheretheseagullfliesaway I hold back from reporting quite a lot of the time as I am worried I'll get banned for over reporting. I was even a bit wary of posting this thread in case I get a ban! Too late now!

Have a lovely evening all.

I'm sorry people can be such arseholes on here 😡

We use 'spoons' here, too. Me and DD both have EDS as well as Autism. (So it works for physical debilitation as well as being emotionally / mentally drained) Healthcare professionals frequently thank us for educating them in reference to spoons. We liken it to batteries. It's really helpful to get across how fatigued you are and how little energy you have left to engage.

DD knows when I don't have many spoons left as I lose my words. We say that our words aren't wording any more, or that our brains aren't braining.

"One has to wonder why people would obsessively post on certain topics without any skin in the game, especially when they make statements that are blatantly incorrect. Their knowledge tends to be poor. "

Lack of knowledge can be understandable. We generally all exist within echo chambers of a sort.

But rejecting people's experiences & instead relying on anecdote (often constructed with a bit of imagination and a lot of bias) is not.

@DimplesToadfoot
I am so sorry ! what a lot to deal with and as you say peoples prejudice on top.is too much to bear.
Please don't give up. There are lots of good people on here as well who will wish you.nothing but good things in the future x.

Yes definitely not a very supportive place here if you’re a mum of disabled child/ren

often lots of insistence that autism or challenging behaviours related to autism can easily be fixed by ‘FiRm BoUnDaRiES’ and this assumption that parents of autistic children are just lazy and cba to ‘properly parent their children’ 🙄

But I was still pretty shocked and appalled at the benefit thread, being questioned why having an autistic child should mean you’re entitled to any extra money and having a poster insist I have no reason not to work full-time even after outlining my sons high care needs ‘because he can go to a childminder’

Being totally honest, yes, part of my post relates to your incessant posts on that thread.

What you have to remember is that a lot of people laid bare their intimate details of their individual situations and struggles. You told them that was only 'their perception / experience'

You alluded to the fact that you have disability within your family. You refused to elaborate on that. Of course that is entirely your right, but when it comes to repeatedly questioning others, I'm afraid it just doesn't sit well.

Plenty of people called you out. You know that. Don't try and pretend that it is just people not liking an ' alternative viewpoint'

If you aren't aware of this, then the problem lies with you, not the many posters who vehemently disagreed with you.

@IClaudine , I haven’t seen the hate you refer to but that’s not to say it’s not there.
I think that people who work very hard despite difficulties in their own lives and bring home considerably less than those claiming benefits and not working are entitled to question the fairness of that.
My own hope is that those gaming the system are weeded out and that those whose need is genuine are properly supported.

The benefit people have been griping about is an in work benefit. Disabled people can and do work believe it or not.

Surely it should just be a case that any posts containing hate or abuse towards disabled people are reported?

I've flitted in and out of a few of these threads and the main thing I took from them is that generally, a lot of posters are unhappy with the current way PIP works and think it needs an overhaul/means testing/tighter controls or reviews (me included).

You may disagree with that but having a different opinion to what appears to be the general 'feeling in the room' isn't a reason to pull whole threads.

Makes me sick hearing women say what a man said before I was assaulted. The way this government has given people entitlement over disabled is so bad. Also disability is not a choice I'm only getting my head around being physically disabled. It was a long journey to find out what was wrong with me and now I'm disabled for life. It worries me when my baby reaches school. He is so sweet and thinks I'm amazing even though I struggle at times. But life will change that from what I've read on here today

@3usernames , ok I was under the impression that the OP was referring to disability benefits. To be honest I have absolutely no experience of benefits apart from child allowance (whatever it’s called now). People in genuine need should be helped of course. Anyone gaming the system should not be allowed to continue doing so.

I am surprised to see your thread not listed here. It was bloody awful.

One poster told me that they hoped my benefits get stopped and I "die under a bridge".
Another was adamant that anyone with MH issues/ND that can post on MN must be swinging the lead as we can just work from home in some mysterious job that just involves answering emails.
Another seems to have an obsession with me running a coffee van, and has insisted I do so on several threads now.

On another, someone asked why an anorexic would get PIP as they "don't have food costs".
Oh, and taxis are a "luxury" that are only acceptable for necessary appointments.

It is a very sad and disturbing time for disabled people right now. It is bad enough worrying about money without the ableist trash being spouted on here too.

I have reported a post ( on a thread not about disability so I wasn’t expecting it) where someone said that children with cerebral palsy should be killed. It was allowed to stay up. My baby might have cerebral palsy. There is so much nastiness on here about disability.

I couldn't list all of them, only the ones I knew about. Please do post a link here so MNHQ can see x

very few people especially in receipt of PiP are gaming the system, it’s an incredibly arduous & often very humiliating task, you have to have medical professionals diagnosis, proof of ongoing medical support, medication regime etc sometimes you are “assessed” by people in no way conversant with your illness/disability/support needs quite often the application is refused you then go onto appeal/tribunal the stress of this is at times torturous.
Maybe if many of those complaining & deciding that some of us are undeserving, should actually look at how the wealthier have become even more wealthier the poor very much poorer, because of this piss poor government the billions & billions wasted over the last fourteen years that’s where the anger & ire should be directed at.

I am referring to a disability benefit in my OP, namely Sunak's launch on Monday of the PIP green paper.

PIP is an in work disability benefit. PIP is awarded regardless of employment status.

To borrow a phrase from a pp, my spoons have now run out.

And more rockers... sorry couldn't resist.
It's definitely the look what they're getting and your not.
Divide and conquer..utter fuckers but people fall for it.

95% of the time my posts were just responses to people that had quoted me. I wasn't spamming the thread but trying to add clarity and to correct when I felt people had misrepresented my view or were factually incorrect. Of course when there is a difference of opinion it is unlikely that any amount of clarification of your view will stop people from fundamentally disagreeing hence they respond back and the cycle continues.

I understand this is a sensitive subject and that's why I didn't object to people responding quite rudely to my posts or outright insulting me in some cases. You are right, I don't have to provide details of my own situation, none of us do. The risk you take when you do is that people will make offensive and upsetting remarks about you and people you love dearly or they will accuse you of lying. That's the internet I'm afraid and why I do have sympathy for people that in my view overshare on forums like this. It makes everything too personal and painful. I don't think I questioned individuals on their personal situation too much as I tried to steer clear of that as it's too emotive. I accept this perhaps made me appear cold and unsympathetic.

Agree, but it's been a problem as long as I've been on here which is roughly 8 years. MN expects disabled posters and their advocates to "educate" which basically means "tolerate horrendous vitriol and abuse"