"boomer" thread 2 💥

[IClaudine]

A thread for people who want to combat ageism on the site, because MNHQ can't be bothered to.

Yes. I don't want this thread to be diverted into or diluted by a discussion about women's spaces. There are plenty of other areas of Mumsnet where those discussions are happening.

I think we’re groomed to be ageist with all the “anti-ageing” shite that is pedalled - then women are ridiculed when they take it to its logical conclusion like Madonna. Also, the demographic on MN is skewed to the better off so posters are more likely to know/be related to wealthy older people.

I feel that the doctor strike partially reflects this perception - drs are far more likely to have parents who are doctors and they’ll be well aware that their lifestyle doesn’t match their parents at the same age and stage, lots of them will be able to contrast childhood memories with their current life.

But in general terms, older people will dress with comfort in mind and younger people will wear current trends. I didn't want to dress like my gran when I was young, as she wore classic 'old lady' clothes, as did every other woman her age in her community.

My grandmothers and great-aunts felt pressure, I think, to dress 'conservatively', precisely because they were nervous of being on the end of ageist and sexist criticisms like 'mutton dressed as lamb'.

You must have got a different HQer to me. My Karen is still there. P&C parking. "jobsworth Karen" isn't a slur apparently.

My grandmother had little money. She was a cleaner, she didn't dress well, but had a good dress for Mass every Sunday. My mother had a better income, but the expectations on her were to dress a certain way. No, I don't dress like either of them. We're somewhat freed from that now, and many of us don't accept these structures.

These are the key issues, really.

How we use language; what we mean by those words; what others understand by the deployment of those words; and how MNHQ is moderating around language in respect of ageism, especially the sexist stuff.

But people's needs, tastes, priorities and resources change as they move through life stages. I don't dress like a teenager because I'm no longer in that life stage. That's not ageism, it's just demographic reality

And it's possible to point that out without all the perjorative descriptions like 'frumpy,' 'dowdy over 50s' 'even my gran wouldn't have worn that' and the like.

Not in the same way. Current younger generations are on the whole less well-off than older generations and are forecast to never amass the same wealth in their lifetimes as the Baby Boomer generation or Generation X. It’s the first time future generations are forecast to not increase their economic position versus their parents economic position at similar ages.

Thus doesn’t make ageism ok, at all.

i wish i had this wealth I am supposed to have amassed.

Exactly that, @MrsDanversGlidesAgain . I'm not going to wear a crop top and tight leggings, it doesn't mean that I don't want to look stylish. I think the worst insult is "mumsy" because it's so awful if people think you're a mum? A woman asked for recommendations for boots - she had a baby and a toddler, but wanted "nothing mumsy". Absurd.

Current younger generations are on the whole less well-off than older generations and are forecast to never amass the same wealth in their lifetimes as the Baby Boomer generation or Generation X

Do we (using the generic we here) see the same attitudes towards Generation X? and younger generations are always going to be less well off. They've had less time to amass wealth (that infinitely flexible term).

I wrote ‘on the whole’. It is a generalisation. There are hugely wealthy people at all ages and those who are very poor at all ages and everything in the middle too. Arguing that you don’t fit the profile doesn’t mean on the whole it doesn’t exist.

But, @LittleBearPad we're arguing against the stereotype that all people in that generation ae wealthy and have somehow "stolen" it from the next generation. That's the problem.

So some people are very rich, some people aren't so rich, some people are poor and some people are very poor and that applies to all ages.

Not exactly a compelling argument for targeting boomers especially for their perceived wealth, is it?

It’s not that younger people have had less time to amass wealth.

On average when they are 65 they will have less wealth than an average 65 year old now.

Today’s average 25 year old when they are 45 will be less well off than your average 45 year old now.

They will never have as much wealth as my generation. (Gen X) or my parents generation (Baby Boomers).

I think you'll find that WASPI women who had the State Pension Age raised by 6 years without time to arrange a private pension aren't well off. Many were in jobs that didn't come with pensions anyway. Many had been encouraged to pay the Married Women's NI contribution for years and weren't even entitled to a full pension. I had this option in the mid 70s but, fortunately, didn't take it.

Also not all older people own their own homes and still pay rent out of their pensions. They are the ones some younger Mumsnetters are suggesting should be evicted to make room for them.

On average when they are 65 they will have less wealth than an average 65 year old now.

Current health projections suggest, on average, they most likely will be deader than the average 65 year old now. That's a sobering thought, one would think.

Can you define this 'wealth,' please, and what constitutes being wealthy? because I'm seeing this term being thrown around and I'd like something a little less abstract than just 'wealth.'

Hospitals are already seeing more cases of bowel cancer in 40 somethings due to a diet of processed food.

It’s completely reasonable to argue against the idea Baby Boomers have stolen from the next generation(s). They haven’t and it’s wrong to say they have. As a cohort they have benefited in some ways from the time they grew up and worked in (but that’s true for every generation)

It’s not wrong however to make use of classes/cohort analysis in order to make a point about why governments may choose certain policies, tax approaches etc. If used in a ranty way (MN style) these sound like stereotypes which isn’t helpful to a proper conversation.

It is sobering. Less well-off, less healthy. Rather depressing for your average 20 something.

I was born at the very end of the Boomer age limit, left school at the height of Thatcherism, unemployment was 80% in my local area, and a lot of the people I grew up with ended up on heroin by the time they were 18. Whole communities have never recovered from this wholesale decimation of working class life and culture. Pisses me off when young people tell me how easy my generation had it.

On average. I assume by the time I’m eligible for the old age pension there won’t be one at all.

If there isn't a pension for you, @LittleBearPad , whose fault is that? Maybe the people in charge of the economy. Maybe the wide boys gambling with the nation's assets.

Why does it have to be anyone’s fault?