"boomer" thread

[Maireas]

You've hidden this evening's offensive, ageist thread, stereotyping "boomers". Will this be deleted? Can we have a robust response to ageism on MN?

The social contract has been broken, and entitled older people seem to think it is their right to impoverish the younger generation like this because "I paid some tax". Even if it was nowhere near enough tax to cover your own costs. And then accuse the people funding their largesse of being entitled. That is why there is anger.

Fact obviously not opinion

But as a generation, it is the most selfish and also self-righteous. And always the belittling

Fact. Obviously.

They took the lower taxes, fuck the future, fuck the climate, fuck the national infrastructure we sold off/ didn't maintain, fuck what we did to education, no energy security, no food security, water system fucked and not upgraded since the war, and now we'll just demand our pensions and you should suck it up.

Obviously not opinion just fact.

All of the nonsense about how hard it was for them when young when they could buy a house as a young couple on one salary, and therefore have no childcare costs, which would now cost over £1m. No student loans to pay. I am actually far more successful career-wise yet can't enjoy anything like that standard of living I'd have had in the same job in the 80s/ 90s.

Not anecdotal obviously.

Laughing about climate change because "oh well, at least we won't have to see the consequences!". Soooo concerned about their grandchildren. 😒 The utter selfishness, knowing I'm working/ caring for children 18 hours per day with no respite ever and not once have they offered to help or even taken them out for a day or babysat them. Yet want to spend 3 hours moaning about their 5th holiday this year when I see them, and how disappointing it was because the hotel stopped issuing its daily newletter and didn't have enough menu variation through the week.

Not anecdotal.

Or did you just sit back and enjoy the low tax, low cost environment and the infrastructure the generations before you built that wasn't even being adequately maintained? And now believe that you are entitled to receive the £400k more in public goods and services over what you paid in (on average) while your children struggle to fund basic living costs? Do you accuse younger people who are funding and trying to fix the huge mess your generation made of being "entitled" (epic gaslighting when that happens).

Not generalising. And obviously not personal at all.

For anybody to take personal insult from that because they happen to be an outlier is bizarre, because there will always be outliers.

No insult's intended. It's you! Not me.

I also note, as have others, that you are angry and bitter and envious. I note that you also seem to have very little lived experience and an overlarge bee in your bonnet, about which you have wanged on intolerably and incessantly on this thread.

Yes it all seems to stem from a deep seated resentment of this posters wealthy parents.

Thanks @sunglassesonthetable I was just going through the posts to do the same!

Lol!! I an more wealthy than them now. So no.

I object to their attitudes, and those of many like them. I find their behaviour and views repugnant, but I wouldn't extrapolate from them to entire population. I prefer the (much maligned) data to make any generalisations on a societal level.

But you carry on with your personal attacks.

but I wouldn't extrapolate from them to entire population

And yet you clearly have.

The social contract has been broken, and entitled older people seem to think it is their right to impoverish the younger generation like this because "I paid some tax". Even if it was nowhere near enough tax to cover your own costs. And then accuse the people funding their largesse of being entitled. That is why there is anger.

Fact obviously not opinion

This is a fact. Pensions and healthcare operated on a ponzi scheme basis is hugely impoverishing working people now. Boomers did not pay enough tax to fund their own costs. I gave the figures earlier in the thread: they on average will receive £400k more than they paid in tax in state services and benefits. Millenials will pay in £300k on average more than they receive back.

But as a generation, it is the most selfish and also self-righteous. And always the belittling

Fact. Obviously.

Quoted out of context from the rest of the explanation. But many posts on this thread exemplify the phenomenon very well.

Get help.

Oh I must have misunderstood your post you wrote about your parents

Inability of people sitting in a house worth £2.5m largely paid for by property prise increases - not via mortgage - with final salary pensions, to understand why I as a lone parent with a mortgage and two autistic children who need specialist childcare might struggle with money.

But suddenly you are richer than them?

They took the lower taxes, fuck the future, fuck the climate, fuck the national infrastructure we sold off/ didn't maintain, fuck what we did to education, no energy security, no food security, water system fucked and not upgraded since the war, and now we'll just demand our pensions and you should suck it up.

Obviously not opinion just fact.

This is fact. Infrastructure development and even maintenance has not been invested in sufficiently over the last 40 years. Much of it sold off to private companies so we now pay the highest rail fares in Europe per mile, German and other national rail operators operating our networks for profit, have a non-functional water system that hasn't been upgraded hence water cut off or shortages even though this is a very rainy country, no new reservoirs built in 40 years. Victorian leaky pipework. Sewage overflows pumped into rivers and seas because the ancient system can't handle modern volumes. National grid that cannot handle more power. Housebuilding refused permission in some areas for this reason. Coastal country importing hydropower from Norway, insufficient power storage, natural resources squandered like oil and sold off to private companies to sell on global markets, windy country but insufficient renewables and no storage anyway, sell energy cheaply abroad in summer then buy it back expensively in winter... nothing done on food security, policies for farming and fishing totally screwed. Nothing done about any of this. All factual.

Congratulations, more selective quoting! I am allowed to make some personal comments about my experience. Hang on, did we not just have you all telling me that "lived experience" is as valid as statistically validated societal level data? Confusing. However, my short asides about personal experiences nonetheless were just that, with the vast majority of my comments which you - shockingly!! - didn't include in your selective quotations were about social and economic trends and policy choices over decades at a societal level, and the subsequent impact of that.

Well I couldn't quote it all! 🤦‍♀️ There's reams of it!!!

Nope you are just as anecdotal, critical and personal as anybody else on here. Just as defensive and irrational as the next person.

No I didn't include the socio economic lectures . Bit bored of that at this stage and you've made your point like endlessly.

You're obviously loving being an economist, crack on. ^You pretend it's about the data but the bitterness is really tangible.
^
As it happens my son (b. 1994 - when I was sitting back and enjoying low taxes - obviously not personal though ) is an Economist so I hear about the socio economic trends and policy choice^ thing from him.

Though not so bitter. ^

All of the nonsense about how hard it was for them when young when they could buy a house as a young couple on one salary, and therefore have no childcare costs, which would now cost over £1m. No student loans to pay. I am actually far more successful career-wise yet can't enjoy anything like that standard of living I'd have had in the same job in the 80s/ 90s.

Not anecdotal obviously.

I specifically stated this was anecdotal.

"Economists Quotes - BrainyQuote" https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/economists-quotes

A bit of light relief but very true.

Laughing about climate change because "oh well, at least we won't have to see the consequences!". Soooo concerned about their grandchildren. 😒 The utter selfishness, knowing I'm working/ caring for children 18 hours per day with no respite ever and not once have they offered to help or even taken them out for a day or babysat them. Yet want to spend 3 hours moaning about their 5th holiday this year when I see them, and how disappointing it was because the hotel stopped issuing its daily newletter and didn't have enough menu variation through the week.

Not anecdotal.

As above.

Or did you just sit back and enjoy the low tax, low cost environment and the infrastructure the generations before you built that wasn't even being adequately maintained? And now believe that you are entitled to receive the £400k more in public goods and services over what you paid in (on average) while your children struggle to fund basic living costs? Do you accuse younger people who are funding and trying to fix the huge mess your generation made of being "entitled" (epic gaslighting when that happens).

Not generalising. And obviously not personal at all.

A specific poster asked me for a personal response about them in particular. You have selectively quoted only the second half of it.

For anybody to take personal insult from that because they happen to be an outlier is bizarre, because there will always be outliers.

No insult's intended. It's you! Not me.

Well, yes. It is you. Because you read and quote only the parts you want, out of context, don't respond to the substantive points, state that data is irrelevant and your personal experience is more important the economic facts, and then make personal attacks on people who disagree with you.

*I think perhaps this should be the new symbol to represent Boomers: 💥

It represents their spontaneous human combustion in pure fury when they are presented with unwelcome facts that don't fit their worldview.*

Crack on @WarOnTheSlugs It's not personal it's just "facts"

No. I've been talking about societal level economic data. My experience of my parents' behaviour and attitudes was an aside that you seem rather fixated on, that I found interesting to note purely because I'd always thought they were just rather bizarre people but based on this thread it seems there are some others of their cohort that bear a striking similarity to them, in terms of their inability to engage in rational discussion or ever admit that they might not be perfect. But it was simply an aside and a very small part of the discussion so it is rather strange for you to be so very fixated on it. I guess just more deflection to avoid addressing the substantive points made about economic generational inequality on a societal level, because you find personal attacks more comfortable for some reason.

💥💥

No. I've been talking about societal level economic data. My experience of my parents' behaviour and attitudes was an aside that you seem rather fixated on, that I found interesting to note purely because I'd always thought they were just rather bizarre people but based on this thread it seems there are some others of their cohort that bear a striking similarity to them, in terms of their inability to engage in rational discussion or ever admit that they might not be perfect. But it was simply an aside and a very small part of the discussion so it is rather strange for you to be so very fixated on it. I guess just more deflection to avoid addressing the substantive points made about economic generational inequality on a societal level, because you find personal attacks more comfortable for some reason.

You're waffling again.

Not that it's any of your business but yes. I struggle for money in terms of monthly income because of huge costs monthly to support my disabled children's care needs. We still have a very nice house, that I paid for.

No. I've been talking about societal level economic data.

Well a bit.

There's reams of the bitter stuff.