Anti-Dementors : The AD’s

[MinkyGreen]

Anti-Dementirs. These are a long running group of threads on Mumsnet.
I’ve recently been on a Covid thread and felt attacked by a group of posters for stating a consensus science view.
I then looked into who this group are - and they have formed threads called the ‘Anti-Dementors”. Dementors being those who wore masks/followed lockdown rules.
The groups they perceive as ‘dementors’ are dismissed/ridiculed as putting ‘cheese in coffee’, - or sitting in their garden with laptops during lockdown. The fact is that many were vulnerable/protecting the vulnerable.
There us also support/links to publications like ‘Unherd’ and ‘State of Fear’ which are bordering conspiracy theory territory.

While I think the discourse is important - it makes me very uneasy when people form ‘echo chambers’ and ridicule/attack/make snide comments in a group towards those with opposing views.

I look forward to your response!

"Covidiots" was in fact the term used towards anyone who was perceived to be breaking the covid rules not the other way around.

You raking through old threads and referring to the Protection of Harassment Act is actually deeply unsettling, not a normal way to behave and in fact makes you appear be be deliberately harassing a group of people, over a perceived, made up grievance.

People were absolutely terrible to each other on here during covid. If you'd like to see that in action, find a mask thread and see how sexuap assault survivors were spoken to. That will provide context to way the support groups were so needed.
You won't though I suspect.

And maybe this will help - it wasn't a group targeting another group because there wasn't a group to target.

It wasn't about individuals or groups or even about opinions. It was general attitudes. As we all know, attitudes vary.

It was about the fact that even the slightest glimmer of hope or something to look forward to would be stamped out. That's how I remember the term dementor started to be used. Someone would make a comment like they thought by Christmas they'd be able to see certain family members and would have posters saying "prepare yourself to spend Xmas alone' ' things will be even worse by then, it'll be flu season too". Wanting to talk about something nice like planning a holiday would get responses like "don't hold your breath, we'll be lucky if European travel is possible even next summer" "ffs OP we're in a pandemic, you've got NO idea how bad things are going to get, this is the calm before the storm"

There were some posters who obsessively checked daily numbers and whenever anyone would idly wonder something like when McDonald's might open again because they were craving a Big Mac and wanting a lighthearted thread about what posters will order from their fave place when it reopens would get "237 deaths yesterday and 600 new cases and you can't wait for McDonald's to open?, your greed for shit food is more important than lives?". Looking forward to pubs reopening would be met with derision and accusations of alcoholism. Wondering when schools might reopen would be met with doomsday scenarios of it not happening for months or years and the poster being told them being too lazy to look after their own kids wasn't a good enough reason to kill teachers.

I was accused of being a liar and some kind of fake news 'plant' when I said my local hospital was virtually empty for the first several weeks. I knew it was because I had many colleagues working there who were bored senseless and gorging themselves on donated takeaways and treats. Because the government and some MNetters were terrifying people into thinking the entire NHS was on the verge of collapse and not that at that point, there were massive regional differences and for every tearful post shared by an NHS worker who was overwhelmed and genuinely so; there were many who were complaining they were losing usual income because there were no bank shifts available because there was not enough work available.

The AD threads were at that time mostly people wanting to talk positively and hopefully about the future or express frustration, without a doom-monger telling them to get used to living a half-life and stop being pathetic and selfish. And ADs being lighthearted by saying things like "sat on a bench in the park today, probably killed 10 Grannies" "opened a package that I didn't quarantine for 3 days, I'll be dead by Friday'

And guess what? Virtually none of the doom-mongers predictions came true.

This also I remember several threads of people saying how of course it was terrible that people were dying etc etc but anyone else feel like lockdown has been good for them? Lots of people saying they'd loved not having to commute, being on furlough or WFH was the longest time they'd ever spent away from the office and it was a blessing, taking up new hobbies like baking, spending more quality time with their kids, it had been an escape from stressful life and they were dreading things getting back to normal. Loving not having to see family or friends that they'd usually feel obliged to.

All valid feelings and experiences but little to zero empathy for people for people who weren't in such fortunate circumstances that lockdown was not a refreshing break from the norm.

Excellent post

Where you’re going wrong OP is by assuming (you know, that thing you accused the AD’s of doing) that the threads were aimed at people who supported restrictions. They absolutely weren’t; many of the AD’s supported restrictions too, especially in the early days. As @KeHuyWinner so eloquently put it above, they were in response to posts where any hint of positivity was pounced upon and pulled apart. There is absolutely no need for you to be personally offended because a) they weren’t aimed at you and b) you obviously didn’t even see them
at the time. They never came up in active conversations so there was no need for anyone to read them if they didn’t want to.

I think I have worked out a little armchair psychology. ……

often, when we are angry, we will lash out at an easy target rather than the true cause of our ire.

In this case, OP has read State of Fear, and now the WhatsApp files and, justifiably, is now very angry with the politicians. However as the political scum who did all of these terrible things are in a protective bubble (no pun intended!) it is easier to lash out at the ADs, hence this thread.

You want a series of threads deleted that provided invaluable support to hundreds of women? That you could have just hidden?

Thats a really fucking awful thing to do.

Could be. I think a lot of MNetters and other members of the public were so fixed on what they were being told to do (or misinterpreted things and thought that was what they were being told to do) that they lost all sense of personal risk assessment and often, common sense.

I remember all those posts about how if you didn't just 'stay the fuck home', then mass grave pits would need to be dug, mobile mortuary vans would be needed to contain all the overflow. Children would be carried out of schools in body bags.

Never happened.

Same with the Nightingale hospitals. One of my local health authorities spent millions building one which NEVER had a covid patient cross the threshold and was decommissioned a year later. My senior NHS colleague was invited to look round in June after it had been set up in April but not needed so NHS managers were asked to come up with other uses. Plus they had no idea why it had been set up when at that point, covid cases in the regional super-hospital ICU had never got outside of an isolated pod of 4.

Lots of MNetters were shouting all over the site about the very existence of them meaning things were actually worse than we were being told because of course the government knew what they were doing. It was one of the things often used by MNetters wanting to quash anyone questioning whether what was happening in terms of restrictions was really needed. "FFS OP they're building units with hundreds of beds because the NHS can't cope!, the country is facing an apocalypse".

I think a lot of people realise now that they were made fools of and were unnecessarily restricting themselves and being unnecessarily nasty to other human beings in the process.

I think a lot of people realise now that they were made fools of and were unnecessarily restricting themselves and being unnecessarily nasty to other human beings in the process.

Worse still is the damage from the overall approach.

I walked past one of those very early have you got corona virus posters still stuck up in pharmacy, it was just incredible how much fear was stoked to get restrictions wanted. Without any emotional response it was odd to consider just how much was put in place.

The thing is, we have no idea how things would have turned out without lockdowns, and if the vaccines had come through 6 months later.
I kind of feel of course the government wanted people scared because if we weren't scared we wouldn't have locked down, etc. So reasonable.

However the AD threads provided a valuable online space in the pandemic to be away from the people who were doing even more scaremongering, or who were making up restrictions.

Excellent post, KeHuyWinner.

Absolutely agree @KeHuyWinner! It was almost on a scale with the field of dreams film 'if you build it, they will come!

The seeming salivation of some on here with the 'bodies lining the streets' mentality was horrific. I do admit at first driving to work (nhs hospital) along dead roads and the getting fitted for ppe was terrifying at first, but as the apocalypse never actually occurred I started to feel better. It was absolutely shit and I completely acknowledge that, but I truly believe there are some who are disappointed we're not still in lockdown under marshal law!

No. I didn’t see them at the time. The thing I’m finding uncomfortable is based on commenting on the WhatsApp thread. There was definitely a group there who were being pretty hostile towards me. And then I saw the same posters on the AD threads - and now commenting here.

Its the hostility. Should I be free to express without being ‘pounced’ on, ridiculed, assumptions made about my motivations for following NHS guidance?

Surely a 2 way respectful discourse is better.

i am skim reading - but I still don’t feel like I’ve had an answer : is an ‘Anti-Covidiots’ thread title acceptable on Mumsnet? As an antithesis to ‘Anti Dementors’?

You’re wilfully ignoring the fact that it was nothing about following NHS guidance. Most of the AD’s were too. I certainly was. It’s been explained multiple times above what the threads were created in response to. You’re just choosing to ignore it.

They disagreed with you. And voiced their disagreement. Then you disagreed back, and then they disagreed some more. It's called an online argument and it's allowed without quoting Acts of Parliament.

They are MN users just like you are and if they see a thread they want to take part in, they do. Just like you did.

And you keep changing your questions. Initially you wanted threads deleted until you were made aware of what Dementors actually are. You're making yourself look very foolish

There was definitely a group there who were being pretty hostile towards me.

No, they/we were disagreeing with you, which is absolutely normal on MN and indeed any internet discussion group.
You however kept making unfounded insinuations about people's broader politics, ultimately accusing other posters of being far-right.

Of course, if you feel at all like you have been personally abused you must report those posts to MN as they rightfully take a dim view of personal attacks.

And if we had been free to ‘express’ on the main boards at the time, there would have been no need for us to create those threads, but we absolutely weren’t.
I wouldn’t have been at all offended by ‘anti covidiot’ threads, because I wasn’t a ‘covidiot’ and therefore I’d assume it wasn’t aimed at me.

@DanceMonster

No I do get that. Completely.

But I’m asking if I can make assumptions about a group I feel ‘attacked’ by - and start a thread based on ridiculing them. With whatever term to describe them. Theoretically. Is that an ok thing to do?

That's right, you did.

You very clearly said that people with the opposing view to yours were aligned with the Far Right and Nigel Farage.

I demand an apology and the immediate deletion of the thread!

Its the hostility. Should I be free to express without being ‘pounced’ on, ridiculed, assumptions made about my motivations for following NHS guidance?

Plenty of us were pounced on and ridiculed, hence the need for the AD posts to get away from it.

Its the hostility. Should I be free to express without being ‘pounced’ on, ridiculed, assumptions made about my motivations for following NHS guidance?

People are perfectly entitled to disagree with you, and to express their disagreement.

@FrostyFifi

No I was being called a nit wit, childish, had a meme directed about me accusing everyone of being a Nazi.

I didn’t accuse anyone of being far right. I pointed out the link with right wing politics and The Telegraph anti-lockdown stance, Richard Tice etc.

Ok. So you feel attacked. I feel attacked.

So therefore is it ok for me to start a thread about my perceived ‘attackers’ and ridicule them???

Thats my question, and no I don’t think it’s been answered at all.

🙄

There you go! Best answer is : ‘an emoji’.