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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Anti-Dementors : The AD’s

317 replies

MinkyGreen · 15/03/2023 04:40

Anti-Dementirs. These are a long running group of threads on Mumsnet.
I’ve recently been on a Covid thread and felt attacked by a group of posters for stating a consensus science view.
I then looked into who this group are - and they have formed threads called the ‘Anti-Dementors”. Dementors being those who wore masks/followed lockdown rules.
The groups they perceive as ‘dementors’ are dismissed/ridiculed as putting ‘cheese in coffee’, - or sitting in their garden with laptops during lockdown. The fact is that many were vulnerable/protecting the vulnerable.
There us also support/links to publications like ‘Unherd’ and ‘State of Fear’ which are bordering conspiracy theory territory.

While I think the discourse is important - it makes me very uneasy when people form ‘echo chambers’ and ridicule/attack/make snide comments in a group towards those with opposing views.

I look forward to your response!

OP posts:
DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 10:51

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 10:45

Ok. So you feel attacked. I feel attacked.

So therefore is it ok for me to start a thread about my perceived ‘attackers’ and ridicule them???

Thats my question, and no I don’t think it’s been answered at all.

You can start a thread about whatever you want. If people are offended about it they can report it, and MN will decide if it can stand. Just like with the AD threads. MN obviously decided a support thread in one tiny corner of the internet that people would have to seek out to read wasn’t causing anyone any harm, when we were hugely in the minority at the time.

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 10:59

Ok. @DanceMonster

Thats a good answer.

Would you be offended if I did that in my own ‘tiny corner’?

Do you think it should or would be reported? Or could you understand why someone might report it?

If I then got my ‘gang’ together and started calling you childish on other threads - a nit wit, made assumptions about your lifestyle etc?

OP posts:
DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 11:04

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 10:59

Ok. @DanceMonster

Thats a good answer.

Would you be offended if I did that in my own ‘tiny corner’?

Do you think it should or would be reported? Or could you understand why someone might report it?

If I then got my ‘gang’ together and started calling you childish on other threads - a nit wit, made assumptions about your lifestyle etc?

No I wouldn’t be offended at all, unless it was an entire thread aimed at me personally, in which case it might sting a little.
I’ve had many people robustly disagree with me on all sorts of subjects on Mumsnet over the years. It doesn’t offend me at all.

MichelleScarn · 18/03/2023 11:04

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 10:59

Ok. @DanceMonster

Thats a good answer.

Would you be offended if I did that in my own ‘tiny corner’?

Do you think it should or would be reported? Or could you understand why someone might report it?

If I then got my ‘gang’ together and started calling you childish on other threads - a nit wit, made assumptions about your lifestyle etc?

If that happened then I'd suggest what you should probably do, step away from social media and get on with your life.

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 11:09

@MichelleScarn

But that then applies to us all.

Those who feel so pissed of by others on social media that they start threads ridiculing them, and those who are pissed off about the threads and report them.

OP posts:
Buzzinwithbez · 18/03/2023 11:12

Minky 💐I see it was another early morning for you. I hope you're ok.

DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 11:13

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 11:09

@MichelleScarn

But that then applies to us all.

Those who feel so pissed of by others on social media that they start threads ridiculing them, and those who are pissed off about the threads and report them.

You’re still labouring under the misapprehension that these threads were aimed at you. They weren’t. You didn’t even see them.

FrostyFifi · 18/03/2023 11:25

You are honestly taking all of this far too personally. I know it's not fun to come up against a group of people on a thread who all disagree with your POV, it can feel quite bruising. But we've all been there.

It's just what happens if you want to engage online, particularly about anything controversial (although it's always amazing to me just what can blow up and become heated).

My honest advice is to step away, maybe do a name-change or something.

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 11:50

Blimey! The assumptions again!

You have no idea what I do for a living, or why I get up at a particular time. Nor should it matter! I’m not a total nocturnal nit wit, although I note the attempt to portray me as one.

No, I don’t think they were - but I don’t like the gang mentality if it’s members when they appear on other threads.

Nah, I’m not stepping away. I’m fine! I am interested in the debate. It’s interesting to challenge my own thought processes and to see how others think. So - I sort of - appreciate most of the responses.

OP posts:
KeHuyWinner · 18/03/2023 11:57

DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 10:22

You’re wilfully ignoring the fact that it was nothing about following NHS guidance. Most of the AD’s were too. I certainly was. It’s been explained multiple times above what the threads were created in response to. You’re just choosing to ignore it.

Yep. I don't think I ever saw a post saying "this is made up bullshit, revolt". I don't think I ever saw a covid conspiracy theroist on AD threads. There might have been but I didn't see it.

What I did see was people abiding by the rules and not wanting to risk lives by being twats. But also realising that some of the things they needed or wanted to do posed literally no risk to the public or the covid protocols but which some MNetters would jump on as 'not following the rules'.

There was literally no real risk to the public if someone who was single and isolated met up outside with another single isolated friend. There was no real risk to the public if someone put an Easter egg in their trolley at the supermarket. There was no real risk to the public if someone sat on a bench in a park or God forbid, ate a packet of crisps. There was no real risk to the public if an elderly neighbour used his period of outside exercise to buy a newspaper in the morning. There was no real risk to the public if someone put some home baked brownies on a friends doorstep. There was no real risk to the public if someone walked a mile or two to their parents house to wave from outside or drove a few more miles to collect a needed item .But you'd get some MNetters yelling about 'the rules' and how anyone suggesting the rule didn't really apply or didn't make sense was written off as a snowflake or covidiot.

I remember when B and Q and other DIY stores opened. Totally sanctioned and supported by the government but some MNetters lost their shit about how THEY didn't think wanting to use enforced time at time to improve homes or gardens was acceptable if it meant you left the house to go to B and Q. That covid shouldnt be seen as a holiday and an opportunity to do things that households had wanted to do for years but didn't have the time.

Trying to make the best of an extremely abnormal situation was viewed as selfish because if you weren't already fortunate enough to have an ideal environment to lockdown in, you should just be miserable and watch Netflix or stare out of the window.

Mostly coming from people who had happy families and lovely homes and gardens already so their covid experience was vastly different.

DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 12:05

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 11:50

Blimey! The assumptions again!

You have no idea what I do for a living, or why I get up at a particular time. Nor should it matter! I’m not a total nocturnal nit wit, although I note the attempt to portray me as one.

No, I don’t think they were - but I don’t like the gang mentality if it’s members when they appear on other threads.

Nah, I’m not stepping away. I’m fine! I am interested in the debate. It’s interesting to challenge my own thought processes and to see how others think. So - I sort of - appreciate most of the responses.

You’re talking about ‘members’ appearing on other threads… are you suggesting that there was a ‘call to arms’ and they all deliberately came en masse to attack you? Surely the most likely scenario was that individually they were drawn to the thread as it was an issue they all felt strongly about?
We were completely ridiculed on threads in 2020 when any of us suggested that the government were weaponising new variants to force compliance, or ramping up the fear by deliberately leaking stories of young people becoming seriously ill with covid so that people would feel a personal threat. The leaked WhatsApp messages then confirmed those things were true. So yes, I imagine a lot of the AD’s are drawn to threads discussing it.
I personally haven’t visited the AD threads since 2021 but I hope they’re still providing support to those who need it.

DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 12:06

I’m not a total nocturnal nit wit, although I note the attempt to portray me as one

You take things very personally. I thought the suggestion was more that you may be in a different time zone.

BogRollBOGOF · 18/03/2023 12:47

MinkyGreen · 18/03/2023 11:09

@MichelleScarn

But that then applies to us all.

Those who feel so pissed of by others on social media that they start threads ridiculing them, and those who are pissed off about the threads and report them.

The problem in 2020/ 2021 is that the "dementors" doom plopping over anyone's hope that schools would re-open, people might go on holiday, might see people at Christmas etc, or berating people for not being in "the spirit of the rules" despite doing legal things is that they weren't isolated internet opinions, they were damaging opinions being fed by dramatic government propaganda such as "look them in the eyes" posters. Those opinions were everywhere with no escape.

It invaded every aspect of life. People jumping off paths. TV presenters jumping 2m apart. Posters in the street. There was no escapism from the situation.

We are free to think each other to be nitwits if we wish. It does me no harm if you think I am. But when you can't see friends/ family, when children are suffering because they're prohibited from goinĝ to school and playing with their peers, when your external purpose is removed for 18m within one week, when you can't see faces on a weekly outing to the supermarket, and can't hear through screens, and you then get called "selfish" because you're struggling and not enthused by the group-think, or you get called "granny killer" because you illegally help your kids over a fence into a playground to spare them from depression, when your hopes of normality resuming in a few weeks/ months/ next year is constantly crushed by hyperbolic rantings, then yes, those opinions weigh heavily.

And we know now that the ADs who questioned restrictions and lockdowns were very often right. We were right that something pretty normal would return. We were right that restrictions came with their own harms (more children died because of the impacts on safeguarding, accidents when not in school and neglected health care than of the virus). We know that politicians were working out restrictions based on populism and what rival governments were doing rather than the science of how infection is spread.

Queuing up outside Primark did not results in "bodies" in the streets. There often was a layer of snobbery to "dementor" opinions. Much harder to "stay the fuck at home when it's a damp riddled flat with no outdoor space. Much harder to shop online when you can't afford a minimum spend. Much harder to keep up with education when you share a bedroom, have no private space and the mobile data ran out and there's no resources. Most of those demanding "proper lockdowns" were doing so from a position where they weren't sacrificing nearly as much as most people.

There always have been people that doom plop over everything and want to drag everyone down to their level, and Covid restrictions were a golden gift to that mentality.

If I don't like an internet opinion, I have choices, challenge it there and then or have a break and leave that thread alone. Getting tetchy about it 2-3 years later is a very strange way to deal with it.

The irony of being called a "granny killer" is that I never saw our granny again due to her rapidly declining health, travel restrictions, and prolonged hospital and care restrictions. We did travel over in 2021 but she was only permitted one visitor.
The irony of "bodies in the streets" is that as a child the police did come to the door to tell us that my dad had died suddenly in the street. Probably why that phrase raised my hackles from the start. People at death's door from Covid were never going to be hanging around outside.
Excess deaths have on balance been elevated for the past 3 years because of poor access to healthcare. All we did was spin the roulette wheel and shift the burden. Granny became so frail she died anyway. Granddad was a "with Covid" death... but the stroke, heart failure and advanced cancer weren't exactly irrelevant. Meanwhile I've also been to the funerals of 35-40 year olds because of suicide and cancer. We just made all their final couple of years lonely and miserable. We didn't save them.

MichaelAndEagle · 18/03/2023 12:56

The only place I could post about the awful feeling of my dd seeing her best friend walk past her bedroom window every day, when she couldn't go to school but her friend could because parents were essential workers, was the AD thread.

It wasn't about the other people, it was about us.
It wasn't anti Covid rules, or anti people who support restrictions.
It was specifically about those posters who were Dementoring as has been described.

If you weren't Dementoring then it wasn't aimed at you at all. Do you think you were Dementoring at the time?

Buzzinwithbez · 18/03/2023 13:07

You have no idea what I do for a living, or why I get up at a particular time. Nor should it matter! I’m not a total nocturnal nit wit, although I note the attempt to portray me as one.

I have trouble sleeping more often than not. I was offering empathy. I'm glad that you're ok. I would hate to think of anyone struggling on the other side of the internet.

DanceMonster · 18/03/2023 13:09

As online insults go, ‘nitwit’ is pretty mild.

BogRollBOGOF · 18/03/2023 13:18

www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/3886644-The-I-just-had-a-sit-down-in-the-park-with-crisps-brigade

Very April 2020.
Some great examples of whataboutery and going beyond what was required in the name of infection control.
This one has more reasoned fight back than most from this era though but is a great illustration of people demanding that others should do things like just walk in their gardens.

Buzzinwithbez · 18/03/2023 13:20

I could see it getting heated here and felt like it was going round in circles. I'd hoped to offer some calm but can see it was taken the wrong way and inflamed things.

MarshaBradyo · 18/03/2023 13:21

Mn was crazy. I’ve been here a fair while now (I put that on big gaps between dc) and it was overrun with posters that only pushed one thing. Harsher restrictions. No idea where they’ve gone now but seem to have since cleared out.

It was frustrating knowing the damage but just getting the worst kind of attacks from certain groups.

It’s a good record if anyone asks in time wth were they thinking to react in this way.

Buzzinwithbez · 18/03/2023 13:37

I'd forgotten how crazy and so damaging to be away from friends and family and the sense of perspective feel that's how a lot of people felt, from the link bogoff just shared.

It was really odd reading about how we were supposed to be keeping each other safe but in reality lots of people vocally didn't care if someone had diabetes and needed to eat, or needed to rest on a bench. Or whatever. I found that really difficult to square up.

JenniferBooth · 18/03/2023 14:43

YY @FrostyFifi It was horrific

www.mumsnet.com/talk/coronavirus/3991985-Rape-survivors-being-castigated-for-not-wearing-masks

CoffeeWithCheese · 18/03/2023 15:03

MarshaBradyo · 18/03/2023 13:21

Mn was crazy. I’ve been here a fair while now (I put that on big gaps between dc) and it was overrun with posters that only pushed one thing. Harsher restrictions. No idea where they’ve gone now but seem to have since cleared out.

It was frustrating knowing the damage but just getting the worst kind of attacks from certain groups.

It’s a good record if anyone asks in time wth were they thinking to react in this way.

It wasn't crazy - it was fucking evil at times.

I recall local to us someone had called the police to report a lockdown breech - a couple of family members had walked up a garden path to collect a bag hung on the front door handle... the bag contained shirts for the family members to wear to go and bury their father.

People were awful. On here, people were awful with time on their hands and a keyboard to hide behind. I barely left the house for 6 months once masks came in because of the insults and accusations on here (we saw them earlier but MN actually had a pair of balls and pulled them) about people claiming exemption... I'm autistic - I can't even deal with the sensation when a duvet comes up above chin level rebreathing moist warm air... I've had to fight over a couple of years to build up tolerance to a point I can have some semblance of a career left from the damned things.

And the responses to children suffering - on here they were foul. DD2 lost most of her language and was absolutely a wreck - to the point where she was having such severe headaches they were concerned about possible brain tumours, and she couldn't sleep, couldn't eat or anything because of how depressed she was... and on here I was accused of wanting to murder teachers and that she needed to learn resilience. She lost that amount of language and development DESPITE having a communication rich house with a parent who had a very good skill set to support - but who was never able to be a class of 30 separate 7 year olds with that level of interaction. Absolutely fucking foul on here the way desperate parents were treated. I remember spending night after night trying to contact any organisation or help desk I could for some advice how to support the decline in my child's mental health - no one was either answering their phones, or their responses were that they were seeing this time and time again and couldn't do anything to help but it was definitely "a thing"... it was only when the class teacher spoke to DD on the phone and heard the massive deterioration in her that school listened at all to how badly she was being affected (as a child with SEN as well so she should have been on their radar) - and she basically went to war with the head teacher to get her a school place. DD1 coped "better" - if by better you mean that she was completely thrown by the boundaries between school and home blurred to the point she was physically violent to those trying to enforce home learning - largely me, who would spend my nights trying to work out ways to support them, and my days trying to do my own degree, support home learning and getting the shit kicked out of me by a child.

Incidentally I'm still working picking up the consequences of it all - vulnerable people who were so terrified into not leaving their rooms (or indeed are still randomly confined to their rooms for a week + at a time when there's an outbreak in their care homes) and lost so much of the groups and activities that they would go to that they now won't leave their home at all and spend their days with alternative activities - like smacking their heads off brick walls and similar. We spent months and months convincing them that the bogeyman was around ever corner - and now, not surprisingly, they're struggling to reconcile that with expectations changing yet again that things are relatively OK. Not to mention that in lots of cases these are people with limited communication, who rely on things like facial expression and routine to support their understanding - who found all that gone, and are still surrounded by masked faces all day every day (although most of the times the masks seem to be protecting the wearer's chin mainly these days).

JenniferBooth · 18/03/2023 15:04

@Worldgonecrazy The only reason i can think of for wanting the threads deleted all of a sudden three years later is because we are getting closer to the whitewash enquiry. I bet certain quarters would love to point to Mumsnet and say that a very popular parenting site was largely supportive of the restrictions and the AD threads being wiped from existence would help with that especially when/IF the enquiry cover how children were affected.

CoffeeWithCheese · 18/03/2023 15:06

JenniferBooth · 18/03/2023 15:04

@Worldgonecrazy The only reason i can think of for wanting the threads deleted all of a sudden three years later is because we are getting closer to the whitewash enquiry. I bet certain quarters would love to point to Mumsnet and say that a very popular parenting site was largely supportive of the restrictions and the AD threads being wiped from existence would help with that especially when/IF the enquiry cover how children were affected.

Yep I think there's now a huge element of people wanting history rewritten and not wanting to admit what kind of a world they clapped and cheered for going on.

JenniferBooth · 18/03/2023 15:12

@MinkyGreen Protection from Harassment Act? You are joking right. What i experienced at Christmas 2020 was much closer to this I got PMed through fb several times by a man id never physically met who asked me if i had spent Christmas with my family and then asked if i was still following the rules,and how we should all follow the rules unlike some. It was fucking creepy. A man PMing a woman he has never physically met late at night to make sure ask if she is still following the rules.

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