Mumsnet undermining breastfeeding again.

[Redebs]

Just read the Mumsnet article on caring for newborn babies. It's sponsored by a bottle manufacturer.

Much of it is misinformation that will seriously interfere with mothers' success with breastfeeding. For example trying to get a feeding routine for a two month old baby. This is totally against normal practice for on demand breastfeeding.

Anyone aiming for regular naps will be seriously frustrated and will think there is something wrong with them and their baby. Night feeding is treated as if it's a massive burden that should be shared by using a bottle.The massively negative impact of inaccurate information and expectations is aimed at discouraging breastfeeding.

There's a 'helpful' link to another article on 'combination feeding' aka introducing formula, along with references to a whole lot of bottle feeding products you should buy.

The WHO condemns companies that use misinformation and pressure on mothers not to breastfeed. While it may be subtly disguised, that is exactly what articles like this are doing.

And for money.

You realise formula is food, not medicine, right?

The breastfeeding studies and the way the results are presented are more misleading than any bottle advert. They should have to say what your relative risk is if you don’t breastfeed, and if you do - for example with breast cancer. Your relative risk going from 15% to 14.4% doesn’t sound anything like as scary as simply saying ‘IT LOWERS THE RISK OF BREAST CANCER’.

But, I assume despite ‘loving factual and accurate information’, OP wouldn’t want this!

@Letstaketotheskies advertising newborn formula is already illegal?

@ReedRite interesting point - where is the line on that.

The Lancet published a series earlier this year on infant feeding and marketing of formula. At the moment the formula companies are putting the effort into convincing people that normal newborn behaviour is wrong and that their products are the answer.

Your baby wakes frequently in the night? Try our formula

Your baby eats little and often? Try our hungry baby formula

Your baby cries a lot? Try our colic and constipation formula.

@Alittlemore I think you missed the posts last night that absolutely shamed a mother for breastfeeding past 1

But the code is in place in the U.K. as you say. This article is published on a U.K. website mainly populated by U.K. mothers who have safe access to clean water. So again why is it relevant?

It's already illegal to advertise first infant formula. Formula marketing is very very tightly regulated. Unlike BFing marketing...

Every package of formula has a statement on it saying that BFing is recommended for babies. You have to see that every time you make up a bottle. That really didn't help my mental health with a newborn as it was EBFing that had made her ill!

If you try and find advice on a formula company website (as it's a nightmare trying to get support for formula or combi from midwives or HVs) you can't get past the first page without ticking a box to indicate you recognise the superiority of breastmilk but, yes, you do still want to proceed.

I'm not aware of seeing any ads for formula when pregnant. Not surprising, it's illegal. I was absolutely bombarded with advertising for BFing though. It's plastered all over the walls of NHS buildings, children's centres etc.

@Moonicorn back to your usual tactics I see.

This is my experience also. And in my local shop if you spend so much you get money off - however this excludes any money spent on alcohol, cigarettes and - formula!!! In fact I think it’s gone too far the other way grouping together alcohol and cigarettes with baby formula.

Of course, but it’s a unique kind of food. Feeding babies, especially newborns, is so much less open to variations than feeding older children and adults. I do think there are some similarities with medicine in terms of how consumer choice interacts with medical advice. Again, I’m not saying it shouldn’t just be available to buy off the shelf for anyone who wants it. Absolutely not. I just mean there are some similarities in terms of things like how generic vs branded drugs are presented in countries where medical advertising is legal. And also just to show there are products that exist which are just never advertised to the consumer whatsoever in places where such advertising is illegal. It can be done.
And I do know advertising newborn formula is banned in the UK. But we all know the companies get round that with stage 2/toddler milks. And mumsnet’s bottle advert presents another potentially murky area.

I haven’t paid attention to the general advertising of formula, my DD is 7, I never get to watch daytime or small kids TV and it’s just not on my radar, other than having read this particular piece following the OP’s frothing. But I take your point that they’re trying to move their product and anyone with any nous in advertising will be honing in on where people are having a problem, so they can present a solution.

But they’re not manufacturing the problems, are they? The behaviours you mention are indeed natural infant behaviours. But the fact they’re natural doesn’t mean they can’t be a problem to a mother.

You can function - just - on hardly any sleep and always being ‘on’ for a while, a few months, perhaps, but it’s very difficult, and different women have different thresholds of tolerance for what they can endure, whether that be because of mental health difficulties, physical conditions that cause fatigue, etc, etc. In an ideal world there’d be a village supporting the mother, but that’s not the case anymore. A mother trying to bf while also looking after a toddler, with a partner who had to go back to work after a fortnight and family hundred of miles away is not always going to be in a position to roll with the behaviours you mention, whether normal or not.

These issues are felt by mothers, they don’t need a company to show them an advert to convince them they’re suffering. They know they are already. It’s there in their day to day experience.

If women find that the normal behaviour of bf infants is not something they can cope with - or want to - that is ok.

And everyone knows already that giving a bottle can help with the things they describe, it’s not new information. So no need for censorship. Let’s allow women to make choices for themselves as the adults they are.

What? Giving ‘factual, unbiased’ information (that apparently you approve of until it doesn’t make breastfeeding look that great, then you don’t)?

we all know the companies get round that with stage 2/toddler milks

…hardly anyone buys that. Nobody is going to give up breastfeeding after 1 year+ to wean onto toddler formula. I don’t think I’ve ever seen or read about that happening once.

Does it actually help though? That’s not something that I’ve ever seen real stats on. Anecdotally almost everyone you meet (it feels like) is ready to tell you that bf is awful and you should try a bottle. There are not many studies on maternal sleep and the impact of feeding choices. At my antenatal classes we were told that the latest studies show that in the newborn phase breastfeeding mums actually get marginally more sleep (presumably because it’s quicker not to have to make bottles and you don’t have to put lights on, be awake enough to handle hot water etc etc + breastfeeding makes you sleepy).
I do think perhaps people who bottle feed night wean earlier than mums who breastfeed. But this might not be anything to do with how the baby reacts to different feeding methods and everything to do with balancing the disruption to sleep caused by going and making a bottle vs. rocking the baby back to sleep without one vs. breastfeeding the baby back to sleep. I don’t know. I’ve not seen any studies on it. I don’t think I’ve seen any decent research into this idea that bottles or formula improve baby sleep, beyond the newborn phase where current thought is that is absolutely doesn’t lead to more sleep for parents.

No, the point is that advertising follow-on milks gives the brand recognition. So you see the advert for brandA’s toddler milk and so that name and the look of the formula tin is in your mind when you decide to buy some stage 1 formula. Like advertising baked beans with sausages is going to help sales of ordinary baked beans for the same brand.

@ReedRite these behaviours are normal for ALL infants, not just breastfed ones. The fact you've said that shows that the message has come through that breastfed infants show these behaviours while formula fed ones don't. There's no evidence to support this.

You've also said that it's well known that bottles help these things - again there's no scientific basis for this. There's no evidence that hungry baby formula does anything for the baby. There is scientific evidence that first stage formula is a compete nutrition source for babies. Anything else they add or do is just marketing.

Support for mum so often seems to be about getting someone else to feed baby. Why can't we just say to mum that she can have a sofa snuggle with baby and someone else will do all the other jobs and bring her the made up bottle to feed or just give her the space to do nothing but rest and feed baby?

Having a new baby is a challenge for everyone. We all handle that challenge differently and all find our own ways through. For some that will be bottle feeding, for some that will be breastfeeding. Neither is wrong.

So the decision has already been made to buy formula? And it’s not ‘influencing the choice to breastfeed, but now you want to restrict women have an inkling of what brand they’d like to buy? This gets more nuts by the minute!

There may not be the studies, but there’s plenty of evidence on the ground, all around us, plus our own experience. I certainly felt the benefits I mentioned from formula. DD found it easier to drink and slept longer before needing more.

In my experience and opinion those behaviours are more pronounced in newborns and as babies get older. Your experience may vary, of course. And there are always exceptions either way. We’re human beings, not robots.

If we’re only going to promote messaging if there’s gold standard evidence, then fine. But let’s be consistent and do that for breastfeeding too.

Why can't we just say to mum that she can have a sofa snuggle with baby and someone else will do all the other jobs and bring her the made up bottle to feed or just give her the space to do nothing but rest and feed baby?

That sounds lovely to me, but a) other women may not feel the same and will not want to be trapped on the sofa for hours and hours and b) not everybody’s domestic set up is such that they have a concerned other person to look after them in this way. In fact many, many don’t. Not considering this betrays a position of immense privilege.

Well said!

For fuck’s sake. Why do you think this is a ´gottcha’? Of course seeing formula advertised everywhere is also going to contribute to women deciding to buy it. That’s what advertising is. The fact that they can only advertise versions suitable for babies over 6 months doesn’t matter much because of the brand recognition thing. Me pointing that out does not mean and not providing a comprehensive explanation of what advertising is not a failure to construct a valid argument on my part.

Fabulous post clearly showing the negativity a lot of mums get when they make the decision to formula feed. Even if their baby is suffering due to lack of milk you get comments like this.

And that's why support for mums who are making the decision to formula feed is needed. To counter balance this kind of thing that happens all the time.

@ReedRite women can't win can they?

If they take time to just recover from birth and feed baby (from breast or a bottle brought to them) they're privileged or wrong because someone else doesn't want to do that.

In lots of cultures, and throughout history, there is a tradition of new mothers doing just this. Resting, recovering and feeding baby while their family and friends care for other children, them, their homes. It's not a new thing.

Why can we say 'to rest let someone else feed your baby' but not 'to rest let someone else prepare the bottle and bring it to you'?

My own personal experience was that my EBF newborn slept better than my combi fed one. My personal experience was that formula was awful for my baby. It made him projectile vomit and didn't fix his issues, in fact they made them worse. But as you say, this is my experience not science. There's nothing I did that made my EBF baby sleep 10-5 90% of the time from 8 weeks, that's just what she did. There's nothing I did that made my combi fed baby allergic to milk.

@Twizbe and how many of your own friends and family have you taken on their domestic chores and childcare for months while they focus on recovering and breastfeeding out of interest?

I found it really unhelpful to be constantly told I should be on the sofa BFing non-stop. I hated being stuck at home BFing non-stop. I had severe PND and this was terrible advice.

What I wanted, and didn't get, was advice for our situation. I disclosed a history of depression at my first midwife appointment. I said I was very concerned about PND, wanted to avoid this if possible, explained previous episodes were linked to anxiety and lack of sleep so I was concerned about the impact of a newborn and that we had no family support. What I should have been offered was advice on sharing feeds with my DH so I could prioritise sleep, referral to perinatal MH support and referral to something like Home Start for someone to hold the baby so I could sleep.

What I got was a deluge of insistence that EBFing was vital. Signposting to BFing support (why is there shedloads of BFing support but no other support?!) and a BF antenatal class.

I followed their BFing advice to the letter - it resulted in a seriously ill dehydrated newborn, which, unsurprisingly, was devastating for my anxiety levels and, yes, I went on to develop severe PND. The HV then told me off for using formula, went on yet another rant about the wonders of BFing , then explained they couldn't provide support for PND or formula feeding but here was a list of the local BFing support groups.

And the reality for me of hours BFing on the sofa was that I didn't see another adult for 50 hours a week. There was no one to bring me drinks or food once DH went back to work from paternity leave. It was just lonely and isolating.