Mumsnet undermining breastfeeding again.

[Redebs]

Just read the Mumsnet article on caring for newborn babies. It's sponsored by a bottle manufacturer.

Much of it is misinformation that will seriously interfere with mothers' success with breastfeeding. For example trying to get a feeding routine for a two month old baby. This is totally against normal practice for on demand breastfeeding.

Anyone aiming for regular naps will be seriously frustrated and will think there is something wrong with them and their baby. Night feeding is treated as if it's a massive burden that should be shared by using a bottle.The massively negative impact of inaccurate information and expectations is aimed at discouraging breastfeeding.

There's a 'helpful' link to another article on 'combination feeding' aka introducing formula, along with references to a whole lot of bottle feeding products you should buy.

The WHO condemns companies that use misinformation and pressure on mothers not to breastfeed. While it may be subtly disguised, that is exactly what articles like this are doing.

And for money.

You kinda are though as you constant tell women breastfeeding isn't worth it. Or that they're exhausted, or that they've wasted years in a fog.

Did you miss that the entire point of this thread was that mumsnet is currently running a ´sponsored content’ type ad for a bottle manufacturer? So not covered by the current UK interpretation of formula advertising restrictions. And the advert is subtly suggesting that breastfeeding is always (too) hard and that bottles (for formula or expressed milk) are the solution? It’s a problematic way to frame infant feeding.

This

When did I say it wasn’t worth it? Quote or it didn’t happen 🤷🏼‍♀️ And I was talking about Merry who admitted that on another thread, so…

@Twizbe why bring it up then? This is a thread about whether women need some information on formula feeding too instead of a blanket breastfeeding is best. This is a U.K. website with U.K. mums. So why bring up a scandal by nestle decades ago? Why, is it always brought up by breastfeeding zealots too? It’s because they love it. Another stick to beat FF mothers with! And as I said, you are all the ultimate hypocrites!

OP in your crusade to encourage breast feeding (admirable) you've forgotten to hide your disdain of mums like me who not only couldn't breast feed but thanks to listening to a militant fucking health visitor who like you was beyond evangelical about it, ended up taking a severely dehydrated 11 day old baby to hospital to be put on a drip.

Then to be given a lecture by the attending doctor that "you should have gone to formula as soon as it wasn't working ".

So yeah, all mums need support with feeding choices

“Only 5% of women can’t breastfeed”

”Proper infant feeding”

To name just two fuck awful comments.

The first one was trotted out by my community midwife 10 days post birth. She continued to push me about it for a few minutes, until I started sobbing.

DH (now ExH) snapped that “I’m no expert but I’m fairly sure it’s impossible to breastfeed when you’re unconscious for two days post birth due to haemorrhage and sepsis, can barely stay awake for another two days after that and your baby is in NICU and also has sepsis.”

Every single fucking medical professional I met after having DD2 said the same bullshit and it was hugely damaging to me when I was already mentally/emotionally fragile, had BF DD1 for 18 months.

Quite frankly I’m fucking sick of women trying to control what other women do. Whether it’s the Forced Birthers or the Formula Is Poison squad.

I know! I would be fully on board if it was a thread about cot bumpers, or smoking around newborns, or the importance of healthy eating for kids. But it never is - always breastfeeding. How many kids die each year due to dog attacks, or domestic abuse, or accidents? But nope - breastfeeding.

It’s bizarre to me that some women are just so invested in interfering in the safe, valid feeding choice of another woman given the millions of actual risks to kids mentioned above. Under the guise of ‘caring about women and children’. If you’re ‘on your knees with exhaustion’ why would you want that for other women?

Hopefully they will go and fill their time ‘educating people’ about actual dangers to children. I suspect they won’t though, because it’s not really about that.

It's the reason why the code and the laws in the UK are in place.

Where the code isn't taken up by governments the same thing keeps happening.

It was the first, but not the last similar scandal.

But it gives them something to feel superior about as clearly they have sod all else or they wouldn’t bother. On that note I’m off for a rainy Monday at the spa. Ladies whatever you do enjoy your babies the time flies and ps long as they get fed for give it another thought:) happy Monday all xx

@Twizbe well that’s a doctor issue, not a formula company issue. Considering the disparity it would be hard to argue that the formula companies have sponsored the education for CMPA because surely we wouldn’t have got the advice we got if that was the case?

@Moonicorn

Because of posters like Merry - misery loves company. They’ve wasted the early years of their child’s life in a fug of exhaustion and poor mental health and now need it to count for something. Sniping at bottle feeding mums makes them feel superior and like there’s some kind of ‘reward’ for the whole thing.

Like merry ... so implying it's the case for lots of other posters too.

Not to mention earlier posts on this thread saying the benefits are not that great.

Agree OP. Mumsnet and most users appear to be predominantly anti-breastfeeding. Even though breast is best (and it's not always easy)

Yes, I think advice about infant feeding needs to come from trusted and neutral sources. Not sources that are trying to make you EBF. Sources that give you actual good quality evidence-based information instead of subjective stuff. That would include what your chances of success at BFing actually are (my medical history means it's highly unlikely I could EBF, yet it was presented as my only option) based on your own situation - medical conditions, what happens at the birth, whether you're planning to return to work within weeks, months or not at all. All of those have an impact on decisions about infant feeding.

Actual figures for evidence of 'benefits'. I was horrified to discover how dubious the benefits of BFing actually are when it was presented as such an amazing thing. So I'd want similar restrictions to formula marketing - you can only promote BFing using accurate figures for actual benefits not vague woolly statements about population-level stuff.

And much better phrasing - 'some women find BFing is convenient' is much more accurate. 'Some women find BFing is free. Some costs you may encounter include...' is, again, much more accurate. 'If you'd like to share feeds with your partner you may find it easier to use formula than express' type stuff.

It is the case for lots of other women. Just look at this thread and the infant feeding board 🤷🏼‍♀️ Given breastfeeding is ‘so rare’ after a few months, why is there a hugely disproportionate number of posts from breastfeeding mums about not being able to cope any more?

And the benefits aren’t that great 🤷🏼‍♀️ you can’t ‘love facts and balanced information’ one moment but dislike it the next when somebody is pointing out the overall benefits are statistically negligible.

But no one on this thread is anti breast feeding. The only disdain that’s been shown is towards FF 🤷🏼‍♀️. Those who dare to admit they needed support or help as BF wasn’t possible for them. Yes, people are disagreeing about articles and advertising but no one is bashing breast feeding. The only bashing is towards FF for those who have either been unable to or purely chosen not to BF

This pathologising of normal newborn behaviour and promotion of routines and shared feeding that aren't realistic for many breastfeeding mothers is very

I'm starting to wonder if the bans on outright advertising formula have just given us something even worse

Imagine what we could achieve if we just stopped judging another woman's choices.

Posted by mistake, trying to gather my thoughts.

Just think that the approach that companies take now is really really insidious and undermining to breastfeeding. At least if they were openly advertising brands of formula and bottles you'd know what their agenda is and it would be easier to ignore and carry on breastfeeding if that's what you want.

Oh come on can you imagine what Twizbe and her gang would say if the advertising became ‘open’

I don't think there is any solution to formula advertising that isn't going to be problematic. It just seems that in a lot of cases the attempts to get around the rules often end up producing worse results than before.

The benefits for breastfeeding aren’t that impressive in reality, though, are they?

Strip away the hyperbolic official messaging and look at the actual research.

Where are the significant effect sizes in the areas that really matter? And no, an increase of 4 IQ points will not make any difference whatsoever to someone’s life chances.

More importantly, where are the good quality trials? You know, the randomised controlled trials on statistically valid numbers?

There aren’t any. No RCTs.

We normally have to wait for a shedload of RCTs proving a meaningful effect when we’re waiting for a new treatment, don’t we? It takes years while studies accumulate. .

But for bf, women are made to feel guilty if they are unable to, on sketchy and flimsy ‘evidence’. That might be ok if it didn’t come at such a cost to some women’s mental and physical health and the health of some newborns. But it does.

This. All that time and energy freed up to be put to good use, instead of in judging and trying to control other women.

I had my kids on a schedule and I exclusively breastfed them. One doesn't exclude the other. In fact I wish I had got them used to the bottle as it would have helped when my husband spent several weeks in hospital when my first was a few weeks old. Babies were not allowed and meant I could only visit him for an hour at a time.

It’s interesting if you compare formula advertising to drug/medical equipment advertising. I think a lot of people agree that direct to public advertising of medicines is a bad idea. Which obviously doesn’t mean that they think medicines are bad! Many people living in countries where direct to consumer medical advertising is banned probably immediately jump to the thought that medical advertising is unethical. Formula and bottle feeding/expressing equipment could absolutely be treated the same way. - Which is not to say that I think it should have to be prescribed, please don’t misunderstand me there - it should absolutely be available to everyone to buy off the shelf without any barriers whatsoever. I just think that manufacturers shouldn’t be allowed to influence the public’s impressions of infant feeding.