Mumsnet undermining breastfeeding again.

[Redebs]

Just read the Mumsnet article on caring for newborn babies. It's sponsored by a bottle manufacturer.

Much of it is misinformation that will seriously interfere with mothers' success with breastfeeding. For example trying to get a feeding routine for a two month old baby. This is totally against normal practice for on demand breastfeeding.

Anyone aiming for regular naps will be seriously frustrated and will think there is something wrong with them and their baby. Night feeding is treated as if it's a massive burden that should be shared by using a bottle.The massively negative impact of inaccurate information and expectations is aimed at discouraging breastfeeding.

There's a 'helpful' link to another article on 'combination feeding' aka introducing formula, along with references to a whole lot of bottle feeding products you should buy.

The WHO condemns companies that use misinformation and pressure on mothers not to breastfeed. While it may be subtly disguised, that is exactly what articles like this are doing.

And for money.

Exactly! Look around your teenagers footy team and pick out the bf kids. You can’t. It’s not that important guys.

It is absolutely undermining BFing.

Firstly, the language. "Gotten to grips with" suggests that BFing will be challenging and take time to master. And yes, for some, it will. But for others, it will come naturally. One of the biggest indicators for BFing success is maternal confidence - planting the seeds that it'll be difficult is not helpful. It should just say "once you have established..." which is far more neutral. They know what they're doing.

But more importantly, advising a BFing mother to express is terrible, terrible advice. Nothing will knock your confidence in your supply quicker than trying to express which is notoriously difficult. And not BFing during the night, when milk production hormones are at their highest, will mess with your supply. In many cases this advice will directly lead to stopping BFing before that was wanted.

That's not what I asked.

Is it ok to do what they did? Yes or no?

I do care about other industries, but we're not talking about those now.

The reason what was happen came to light is that's doctors in the regions started to see infants presenting with malnutrition and dying of that. They'd not seen infants with that (older children who were fully weaned yes) babies were dying of other stuff as well, but this malnutrition was new. All the mothers had swapped from breast to formula.

The article also doesn't mention other things people can do to help you get rest, just express a bottle for someone else to give.

So you can’t basically, it just isn’t what you want to hear rather than ‘anti bfing’

I can’t think of a better way to undermine breastfeeding than to introduce a bottle in the evening, peak time for cluster feeding behaviour, which helps build supply.

Oh yes, I expect so. Probably far more than half. Both BFing and vaccine uptake correlate with higher levels of educational attainment, so I would imagine there's a significant crossover between the two groups.

No it’s not okay what they did. But admit it @Twizbe you absolutely LOVE that formula feeding companies engaged in unethical practises. It gives you , a breastfeeding zealot, another stick to beat formula feeding mums with. Not only are they not breastfeeding their babies but they’re giving money to companies who caused harm to women in developing countries. You get to feel so superior and smug that you didn’t formula feed and support those companies - while you walk around in your clothes manufactured in a Bangladeshi sweatshop produced using slave labour of women and children, wearing and using products tested on animals, using pharmaceuticals by companies who if researched engaged in equally questionable behaviour, eating foods depriving other people of sustenance and most ironically of all, bringing up a scandal from decades ago while living in a country and being from a nationality who raped, pillaged and abused their way across the world. Grow up!

I’ve pointed you to the past couple of pages, I’m not going to go looking for examples on your behalf – you’re the one that wants them, go back and read them, I have better things to do. You called me arrogant in the early stages of this thread for daring to want higher rates or breastfeeding in the UK but here you are, arrogantly asking posters to spoon feed you Cliffs Notes versions of the thread for your edification.

Could you explain the funny part? Like, what’s the joke?

I hope the screenshot appears as part of the quote? Anyway, the idea that expressing milk is a goodway to get an extra couple of hours of rest in the evenings while someone else gives the expressed milk in a bottle is bullshit in my experience, at least in the first year in my case. First of all you have to find the time and space to express the milk in the first place, which takes some doing when you’re trying to look after the baby all day and feed the baby whenever they’re hungry. It’s possible but you have to want to do it. Then in the evening when you go and have this mythical break and your partner/mum/MIL feeds the baby the bottle - you’re probably still going to hear the baby cry and that will trigger let down and your boobs will be rock hard and you’ll be awake and desperate to feed to avoid blocked ducts anyway. I think expressing is a great way to be able to spend time away from your baby - like if you want to continue breastfeeding after you’ve gone back to work, or you want to go out with friends or family without your baby. But you still have to pump at the times you’d normally feed or you suffer. So this idea that expressing is a great way to get an hours break in the evening is just setting new families up for conflict, and new mother’s up for pain and frustration. I reckon whoever wrote that part has never tried this idea for real.

@Moonicorn is probably too busy still looking for the history books they promised me that tell us all about how BFing hasn't been the norm throughout history

I also wonder how much of the drop from 80% starting BFIng is women being encouraged to set unrealistic 'BFing goals', rather than anything to do with formula advertising. We had EBFing constantly pushed at us antenatally, it was made clear it was the only acceptable choice, that it was brilliant for our and our babies' health, free, an amazing experience, natural, convenient. We were told babies fed frequently and you had to feed on demand to ensure success (success was presented as a choice) - cluster feeding was a 'lovely snuggly excuse to watch a box set'. Of course I set goals of 6 months EBF and 2+ years BFIng - it sounded like the most amazing thing possible and I couldn't wait to get started!

The reality was so different - I had no idea my milk might not come in for several weeks, that my baby could become seriously ill from dehydration, that cluster feeding a starving newborn is actually hell, that it's devastating for your mental health, it's really expensive because you suddenly have to fork out for a load of things (nipple cream, pump, dubious supplements to try and get your supply up), it's not at all convenient doing triple feeding or having to be with your baby the entire time.

Maybe some of those 80% of women who start BFing but then stop realise BFing hasn't lived up to the hype and decide to switch to formula because why not?

I've done both - I combi-fed for first year and BF to more than 3 years. I found using formula far more enjoyable and convenient as well as cheaper than BFing. I also liked being able to share feeds with my DH which worked better for our family life.

If I hadn’t expressed and used bottles my bfing ‘journey’ (wanky phrase) would’ve ended after a few days. You’re talking the usual nonsense.

Is this true Merry? Let your child sleep for the love of God. Please, stop exhausting them for your own weird ‘Earth mother’ agenda. I find it cruel actually.

And I love that because the women on this thread are telling OP and her ilk to buzz off, they’re now falling back on the old Nestle scandal. So go start a petition against Nestle 🤷🏼‍♀️ or even better, donate to a charity that produces clean water in the third world, or maternal education. What do you think you’re actually achieving by posting on MN to mainly British women? That they’re going to suddenly race to the kitchen, bin their tub of Kendamil and self flagellate until you feel they’re ‘sorry enough’?

And if I’d persisted in trying to express – because that’s what I read about everywhere, that you needed a pump and bottles and to express and get DH to do an evening feed and get some freedom and blah blah blah – I’d have given up EBF because it was incredibly hard work trying to express around a Velcro baby who only wanted to be held for the first six months. I once tried the Hakka suction pump on my spare boob while feeding from the other and she kicked it off and spilled the milk; I quite literally cried over spilled milk. Any “break” I could achieve from someone else giving a bottle was at the expense of working twice as hard at some other point in the day to express. Life became much easier once I gave up expressing.

But the above is pure anecdata, as is your experience. Not every EBF experience has to involve nipple cream, pumps, lactation consultants, or any money at all. My first did (but I certainly didn’t need the electric pump and fancy hands-free pumping bra my NCT compatriots convinced me was necessary – both are untouched in the attic awaiting sale); my second didn’t – he truly is fed for free. All we needed was his posterior tongue tie spotted and clipped at birth: making sure all medical staff are trained to spot these is vital.

Because of posters like Merry - misery loves company. They’ve wasted the early years of their child’s life in a fug of exhaustion and poor mental health and now need it to count for something. Sniping at bottle feeding mums makes them feel superior and like there’s some kind of ‘reward’ for the whole thing.

Advice on infant feeding should be coming from trusted, neutral health authorities and not from companies who are trying to sell us their products.
I think the NHS and NCT need to include information about formula feeding and combi-feeding and how to switch from breast to formula at different ages as a standard part of antenatal classes. Without the implication that anything other than exclusive breastfeeding is failure and bad parenting. But adverts from formula companies and bottle makers should be very tightly controlled. Subtle differences in language make an enormous impact on the impression first time mums get of what infant feeding is supposed to be like. How is anyone supposed to be able to tell what is normal newborn behavior and what is a serious health issue when the information around us is so inconsistent, and often based partly on advertisements. These adverts don’t just impact new mothers either, but also their family and friends, so advertising influences the messages new mums receive from their social circles too.

@bussteward Cool but I’m not the one here trying to limit choice for other women 🤷🏼‍♀️

Well this is nonsense. My first had CMPA and I was actively encouraged to keep breastfeeding on a dairy free diet.
Nothing to do with formula companies “sponsoring the education”. The NICE guidelines state a dairy exclusion diet for breastfed babies with CMPA. The prescribing guidelines for formula are for babies who are ALREADY formula fed.

It does. Advertising newborn formula is illegal. The NHS provides information on both. Just because it’s not having the effect some posters ‘would like to see’, doesn’t mean it’s not happening 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Toandfroto I don't love it. I also don't want to beat any formula feeding mum. I combi fed one of my children so I also lined their pockets.

Lots of assumption here.

@BridieConvert me too. I was lucky. Not everyone is and thanks to some work guidelines are changing.

My cousin who's baby is the same age as mine was told to stop breastfeeding her CMPA baby by an uninformed doctor.

It’s so bizarre. Again look around a high school and pick out the bf ones. You can’t. Load of rubbish. It’s a short lived phase that can be got through with bf formula whatever long as the mums happy rest will follow. Good luck keeping teenagers off Diet Pepsi though that’s a bad egg that stuff 😆