The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

Maybe that should be changed then? Rather than get rid of it?

I for one think it should stay but by all means be moved from active convos if it is aggrivating so many.

I for one have never had such a clutter free house since finding mumsnet then a while later finding its classifieds (selling off the kids old/unused bits etc).

It is a very valid section of mumsnet and if regulated properly by MNHQ (which it looks set to be) can quickly be restored to order As there are clearly major changes needing to be made.

Def not worth getting one's knickers in a knot over though I dont think!

And as for the 'them and us' mentally that should be hit right on the head as it only causes ill feeling and its clear both 'sides' as it were are extremely defensive .

I dont think its about class per say (ie if you say hun youre clearly one of them and to be judged) but about choices. Some mumsnetters prefer to hang about predominantly on for sale / wanted boards and others on other parts of the site for example pregnancy or ethical living. I dont think its fair to marginalise the people that choose to do the first - but thats just my opinion I seek peace

Ok I havent read all of this thread but as someone who has used the for sale and wanted boards here are my thoughts/suggestions;

I think definately without a doubt people should have to pay for cat and actually perhaps an additional fee if they want to use the for sale board. Some people will never want to use the for sale board so why should they have to pay but those that do are going to make money so should have to pay extra for the priveledge

I also feel that this is a parenting board so anything unrelated to babies/children/maternity etc should not be allowed to be sold on the boards. This will reduce the appeal to anyone who is not a parent looking to get rid of genuine outgrown stuff

and/or

Perhaps also consider an upper price for items, say perhaps £50 as the absolute maximum price, personally I would say £20. This would cover most things that parents would be likely to want to sell such as outgrown clothing, toys, maternity clothes most baby items, buggies and car seats. Obviously it wont cover larger items that we have to sell but then maybe this is not the place to sell things of a higher value these should go on ebay or in local papers etc where there is some protection for the buyer. As a buyer on here even if you use paypal you have very limted protection, I believe paypal will only refund what is available in the paypal account if you raise a dispute whereas on ebay you have a minimum of £150, probably because ebay own paypal. Having an upper price limit on for sale stuff would I think stop the scammers or at least make the for sale boards less appealing to them.

Also I think being a paid up memeber of mumsnet for a minimum amount of time maybe 6 months and a minimum number of posts (50 or 100) on other areas of mumsnet should be considered.

Sorry if Im repeating what others have said those are my thoughts. You are never going to totally get rid of the risk of being scammed but I honestly think it may help to reduce the chances of it happening.

can I say as well I have sold stuff worth over £50 and also stuff that is not baby stuff but I would be happy with it just being baby/childrens stuff etc

Agree with many other posters - for free or with postage is great, green etc. but why do we have to have 'for sale'? There are plenty of other outlets for this sort of thing. Having said, I hide the threads so never look them until someone (usually a regular) is upset and it becomes an ishoo .

Take it off talk is IMO the best way to deal with it and as someone said further down to:

Have it as adverts within categories

Poster must have CAT subscription

Email included for correspondance
rather than using a "thread"

Each advert stays on for one week which would negate "bumping" as its just an advert

Cant remember who came up with some of that but seems like a straightforward and easy way to deal with it ??

I agree with HHMW - that maybe an upper limit should be imposed to minimise serious loss and subsequent upset.

I can also really sympathise if all the For Sale stuff is coming up in the 'last 15 mins thread'. can't it be screened out?

I just had a look through page one of 'For Sale' and on first reading they all look genuine.

Can I say also:

1. there are many rude posters in other sections
2. to those who are suggesting Classified Users are the wrong demographic for mumsnet and bad for the Business Plan ; I use the boards and I buy so much Boden and GLTC stuff that I must keep them in business. I also note Expedia are advertising and I've just booked a weekend abroad through them!! So be careful about generalising.

Also, there are surely mumsnetters who don't have much money and people ought not to begrudge them getting a bargain for their children.

Agree with Marina (thanks, Marina, you saved me a lot of typing) and also with people who have said that "number of posts" won't work as people who don't really want to post and are only doing so in order to qualify to sell on MN will not contribute a great deal to the site (blimey, that was a long sentence).

All the other solutions seem to involve a lot of work on MNHQ's part - I guess only you can decide whether it's worth it but - if it does stay - I think it should stay off the talk boards.

I was telling dh about it before and his succinct contribution was "sack it!" (I wonder if he was talking about For Sale?Wanted or MN in general...)

I like the idea of a verified address or phone number, and anyone who breaks the rules of the for sale board should have two warnings then be booted off mn

Privacy is an issue for me. By posting on Talk threads, I am letting people see into my life a little (or a lot). I have posted for years so people could find out quite a lot about me.

If I sold on the 'For Sale' thread I would be letting anyone get hold of my RL address. Possibly my RL name and email address too. Why? Because as a responsible seller, when I post out a parcel I would put my home address on it in case Royal Mail had to return the parcel to me. Also, I may have to email the buyer about something. I know the risk of a nutter going onto talk, then getting hold of my RL address is remote but it is possible. I don't want to mix business (selling stuff) with pleasure (dabbling on mumsnet). It also raises the possibility of identity theft.

What I am saying is that I come onto mumsnet to relax and don't want just anyone getting hold of my RL details.

So I think the privacy issue is another reason why the for sale threads need to be taken right away from 'talk'. I think it's perfectly reasonable for sellers not to want to post on talk and they should not be slated for it.

Of course that doesn't mean IMO that it's right for sellers to take blatant advantage of mumsnet and run a business off mumsnet HQ's good nature.

I agree with Marina. Although we can block for sale threads, people new to mumsnet will not know this and it will create an inaccurate impression of the site.

Doesn't really bother me - I wouldn't buy on here as too many obvious scammers, but don't see why other people shouldn't have the facility to do so - topic can always be hidden.

I don't get why anyone would, mind you. Ebay fees are peanuts, if you really need to make a return on stuff - & if you just want shut of outgrown clothes etc, what's wrong with the real freecycle?

A bit about the BNWT business, I must admit - how is that stuff not going to be dodgy?!

I suppose I'd come down in favour of a separate board linked from homepage, if it's really riling people to this extent.

I haven't read the whole thread, but would just like to say that I have used the for sale to buy and sell and also use lots of the other boards, and have been caught out by a scammer, I in no way hold mn responsable for that, and I think the boards are great for mums like me who have little money, but still want nice things for my kids, In the few bits I have read there seem to be alot of good points, however I don't think that its fair to insist that people pay the cat fee just to beable to post, (I cannot afford even £5 for the privilage of being able to sell here, thats why I don't sell on ebay as I can't afford the fees), but wouldn't dream of selling anything unchild related on here, I thought the idea of mumsnet was to include everyone, not exclude people because of financial restraints, if people want it moved then thats fine but there should be just as much right to post on there as anywhere else sorry if that was a bit longwinded!

The thing is though, RE te CAt, that really we should all be paying the CAt fee anyhow- MN is decidedly not a chairty operation nd we cannot expect it to be run purely out of love.

No doubt I shall get slated for that but there you go

I vote for taking the For Sale/Wanted boards out of Talk.

What Marina said. What F&Z said.

Also: Ebay and similar have all those rules and regulations for a reason, ie they have to or else they would be overrun by thieves.

There's no way the MN For Sale board can operate fairly without having the same regulatory mechanisms. Ultimately, to keep the trading honest, it's going to end up a mini-Ebay.

Is this what MNHQ really want? Because it will be a huge amount of effort and expense just to replicate something which already exists.

There have been a few items I have looked at and thought - , i wouldn't touch that with a abrgepole. I wonder what happens if it is found out that someone (and I am not saying anyone is, but is a possibility) fencing stuff off through MN? There have been prosecutions of people locally fencing stolen items through Ebay and Ebay assist with that, would MN have the information and resources to help if approached by the police, and if not how would that reflect on them as an organisation?

I have done a few things free to a good home, and once sold but only to someone who was asking; overall though I just think it's too wide iopwn a risk and Mn should stick to what it does best- parenting advice.

And to turn it around, there's no way that I, if I was selling a lot on ebay, would want to contribute to ebay talk threads about my home life, parenting problems, work situation etc etc. I don't want potential buyers knowing random stuff about me.

I bet some of the sellers here do actually contribute to talk quite a lot, but do so under another name. So although they appear not to be regs, perhaps they are.

Only allow 3 listings a year per member, and only used items. That ought to be plenty for the mner who wants to offload a few outgrown things from time to time, but hardly worthwhile for the high-volume traders.

There are For Sale boards?! Where?!!

Hi, Hunk

I have given something away on MN (FFP) and I was really pleased to do it as I had no further use for the item, but it was really useful to the person who got it, even though it was not in great condition. Otherwise I would have put it in the tip as I don't think it was eBayable, so giving it away on MN was a really green option. I think FFP should stay in talk and that you shouldn't get charged to use it.

Personally, if I have stuff to sell, I sell it on eBay. eBay fees are fairly large if you are selling low value items (say under £5) so I think it would be fair to allow MNetters to sell items for up to £20 per item. Other 'rules' I would have would be:

-Used items only
-Only items relating to children/maternity etc
-£10 upper price limit per item (otherwise eBay should be used)
-Take the selling away from the talk area
-No more than 10 items to be offered for sale per person per year

I've tried to give something away, but no-one wants it

I agree that it should be FFP now.

I used to thin k that the for sale boards were a good idea, and people that were moaning over nothing but to many people have been ripped off lately, and too many people are taking advantage by selling stuff for profit and not even using the rest of the board.

VS - I would have offered to take them off your hands but unfortunately not sure what qualifies users as a "regular"

Someone who dares to venture out into the scary world of MN