The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

Hahaha it's not the rest of MN that's scary. only the sale boards!!

I've ventured out into the abyss many a time and so far have returned fully intact,well maybe just a little damaged

madamez it's not a class thing imo. it IS an attitude thing. and some of the attitude on those threads is disgraceful.

i would be v happy to see the back of the for sale section..... if not (as i understand that is unlikely to happen)..... then out of talk / contact off board by email / no whining when you're scammed...... and no being gratuitously offensive

completely ignoring the rest of the thread (sorry!)

Is there a way to stop people having - sorry screen readers this will annoy you - or ~~~~~~~~~ in their titles at least.

Well, if you want those bands Gem email me fan-fkn-tastic @ hotamil dot co dot uk.

loving that email address vs!

I saw a suggestion yesterday which I liked, but I can't find it now so I can't acknowledge the founder of the idea. Basically could we have the threads listed by time of first post rather than last bumped- could get rid of the bumping problem and put all MNetters who use the full board a chance without being swamped amongst the hardcore sellers.

Better still would there be any way to adopt a ebay style "this listing will only last for 7 days and after that it will disappear/be archived/self distruct", and in this instance we could list based on the "expiry time".

TY, and I did aknowledge it wasn't my suggestion, but I thought the poster began with a N or M so ignored all the L's ....

...tolddles off to geeks corner to be confused some more

I think you should get rid of the For Sale section actually. If people want to have a business selling then they can do if they pay a fee.

I do think there should be an exchange and gift section though, for people who want to donate their stuff.

If people want to have a business selling they can do what my DH (ebay trader part time) does and register for tax, then their fee will be costs anyway!

I think the point is to not have traders. Is the for sale board not there to help mums/families? Using it properly benefits both the buyer and the seller as long as it is done in the intended manner, surely?

All I can say is I would never ever buy anything from the For Sale boards on MN. I just wouldn't trust the seller - sorry. Unless they were a regular, and they don't tend to use the For Sale boards.

I think alot of the buyers and sellers are doing it as a hobby and a way to interact which is just as valuable as the other sections.

I enjoy the diversity of mumsnet and would be disgusted if the buyers and sellers were excluded. My children grow so quickly and would rather buy off a fellow mumsnetter than someone on ebay, I also offer on here first before I ebay, as I can charge much less for the item if I don't have fees to pay.
I haven't posted the for sale section for a while, as every time I do, someone always comes along (and kindly bumps my thread for me)to tell me something along the lines of: "oh dear, you seem to have rather a lot of items for sale, surely you are a business and should be paying £30 or because I had a few brand new items for sale that I was a business, have people not had unwanted gifts before, items that you have found at the back of the wardrobe, but are now too small etc.
Snobish comments like these also ruin mn for everyone:
"overloaded posts by under-educated posters"
"although you just know the huns will take it then flog it on ebay"

These type of comments should be banned by mumsnet hq

Categories would be good. I would like to see included an 'anything else but I really don't mind if it's just baby & child related items only allowed for sale, a maximum amount per item would be fine, if it stops people getting ripped off I am all for it, everyone should at LEAST get proof of posting or send by recorded delivery (and if they lose the proof, then it is their fault and would have to refund all monies paid)

Those of you trying to ban or the For Sale section should really go and get lives and stop whining about something that is not doing you any harm.
What's the big problem here?
Live and let live if you don't like it don't read it, it's as simple as that.
I do agree that it should be a separate section completely.
I also agree with these statements:

SO then we're left with all this piety about how people should only be allowed to pass on their outgrown stuff free or for postage only, or they should be charged £20 (£20 FFS is about a third of the weekly income of someone on benefits!). Well that's fine if you're comfortably off, but for people on a tight budget, selling the last lot of kids clothes for a few pence is the way you pay for the next lot of kids clothes. Also, if you are very skint, selling off (for instance) stuff people gave you for Xmas or your birthday such as clothes that don't fit or suit you is another way of adding a few quid to the household budget.

ANd the most baffling thing of all - some of you are whining that the sellers don't use the other talk boards? Given that the sellers on mass have been referred to as chavs, shoplifters, thick, uneducated, Vicky Pollards and illiterate... A) why are you so surprised that they don't want to use the rest of the site and B) why do you want them to use the rest of the site when there's so much moaning about their spelling, vocabulary and use of extra punctuation that fucks up people's reading machines, anyway?

I have and still do use the other boards. But I'm am being made to feel like I'm not allowed just because I do use the sale board on a regular basis. There is always an "us and them" situation. Why is this? I thought MN was here to give support and advice to parents and families hmm

How do you propose to attract and keep new users of ALL boards if this is going to be the way in which they are treated. It seems like there a lot of long term members who like to stick together, that's fair enough as you have obviously become very close but please give others, myself included, the chance to join in. We're not as bad as you think!

And Finally

f you don't like it, then don't read it. lol

Havent had time to read everyones posts, so may be repeating what has already been said.

I love using the whole of Mumsnet - including the For Sale boards. I'm not a business, havent got a haul of stolen items to sell but like to offer items I no longer need or cant make use of to other mums. I prefer this to ebay not because it is free but because it has a nice feel to it knowing someone you have chatted to before is in need of something you have. It just as nice when it is the other way around - take a look at the new feedback forum and you will find comments made on so many of the For Sale board users who have indeed become not just sellers but friends over the net, as I'm sure many other users of MN have found no matter what boards they frequent.

The intial guidelines that came about last week were fantastic, all users involved in the heated debate about what could done agreed - and they did start to have an impact on active convos, for the majority of the time there has been less For Sale threads seen. However these guidelines are very recent and have not yet been seen by everyone who uses/may use those boards, so until there is a way for these to be easily accesible for people gto refer to there is going to be the odd individual who messes up and makes a mistake.

I'd be happy to pay the CAT fee, I dont list items for sale on a regular basis but if in order for me to do that I had to pay an admin fee, I'd be more than happy to do so.

I think it would be a shame if they disappeared, as they are there to benefit a whole community, not just a small amount of people.

( if you still up I need a favour )

see this thing about 'if you don't like it, don't read it'... can it just please sink in once and for all that at the moment For Sale is an enclave that excludes regular MNers?
and that regular MNers want to use it?
so it's a bit rich all this just ignore it business. why should we have to?

i'm all for the boards being tidied up, and don't want them banned, but for some reason the regular For Sale crew still think that 'don't look at it, then' is a good enough answer. it isn't, it's the sort of thing that a teenager would suggest tbh. the whole point is that we need to think of a better way of managing the boards so that we can ALL benefit from them.

I agree with Marina. In the dim and distant past (several years ago) I did send off various items FFP and bought a couple from mumsnet for sale boards. But I wouldn't dream of doing so now. I have them hidden and never think of them.

If I have stuff to clear out these days if it's valuable I can do it through ebay if I can be bothered, mostly it just goes to the local charity shop.

OK, here's another suggestion, which is based on the way my local freecycle-style thing works. OK MN towers it would be a bit of a job to set up but then it ought to run itself... listings by area as well as category and a swap site not a sell site. the one I use prohibits cash changing hands and you can just give stuff away but you can also ask for a swap for something else you need (ie - offered, toddler boy clothes, will swap for newborn girl clothes...) but it's regarded as reasonable to offer to swap your item for something like wine or chocolate or bubble bath.

With my science hat on, if you want to stop traders but not ordinary people, you just need to find one or more (pref more) posting habits that are very different between the 2 groups, and then design the board to exclude those.

So, for example, people have suggested limiting the number of threads you can start. I bet if you counted up the number of threads by individuals, you'd spot where to set the limits.

I don't know what other habits might be, am not often on that board. But probably there are other clues you could use.

I think the for sale/wanted boards are a pain - I just hide them. Get rid of them and leave MN as a discussion forum. You don't want to be a branch of E-bay do you?

For Sale is an enclave that excludes regular MNers?
Thats not true, of course people don't want to exclude regular mumsnetters, thats who they sell to most of the time, my point being is everyone is welcome (it is a public forum after all) but please do not post snobbish comments about the sellers, you would obviously not like it if you were picked on for any grammatical errors that you make, the type of language that you use, being called chavs, shoplifters, thick, uneducated, Vicky Pollards and illiterate, comments like these: overloaded posts by under-educated posters"
"although you just know the huns will take it then flog it on ebay"
I'm shocked that people are surprised that sellers get defensive when spoken to/about like this.
I agree there should be a better way of managing the boards and one thing would be for mn to stop people making nasty uncalled for comments abouts peoples class, this is not in the spirit of what mumsnet is all about.

Ok

My tuppence worth (and while I have a couple of pennies, I have to point out to MagicDragon4 the treatment of Aitch the other day - if you need to me to link the thread I will)

1. The for sale boards ONLY seem to welcome anyone who does not make any suggestions, comments or opinions, which is what the whole of the rest of MN seems to be about (and is why I love you all so)

1. It pisses off people - call them regulars if you want - who use the rest of the talk boards for the above suggestions, comments or opinions

1. Selling is not talking

1. It has been, and will continue to be abused

so my suggestions are

1. At the very least remove selling stuff from the default, so that new people dont see those as part of active convo or whatever

1. Preferably, make selling a seperate section,

2.a. with no bumping available, you list it and it is listed, by time of post and you can look at what was listed in the last day or whatever

1. ONE item per post, or one bundle, not 573 bits of newborn BNWT on a picturerail that all have an individual price. By all means link to a picturerail to see all the items in a bundle, but they should then be sold as a bundle.

1. Once something is sold the buyer and/or seller (maybe the buyer) should be able to mark it as sold, so it is no longer in the listings

1. Only people who have subscribed to cat can buy or sell

1. Categories, as many people have said, so that I can look at only clothes for my DD who is 18 months old, or whatever

7, 8, and 9

Sorry tech