The For Sale/ Wanted boards - update from M Towers and post your ideas/thoughts here

[JustineMumsnet]

As you may know we have in mind a complete overhaul of the For sale/ wanted boards as they seem to be making many folks' lives (ours especially) a misery.

Clearly it makes sense for us to have classified ads - why not re-cycled used stuff? That should in theory be good for buyers and sellers alike (and it's very green too). But equally clearly, at the risk of understatement, it is not functioning well at the moment.

However, complete overhaul is going to have to wait a wee while as Tech's got quite a lot on... (We are hopefully bringing you improved local listings, blogs and more in the next few weeks and months).

In the meantime do give us your ideas for how you'd ultimately like to see For sale/ wanted working. (I know some of you have already posted some sensible (and not so sensible thoughts around and abou but we'd be super grateful if you'd re-post the best of them here so everyone can see, discuss and refine.)

So... what rules would be fair/enforcable and assist in the smooth working of the thing? (nb we are never going to enforce a no huns policy I'm afraid, so do be realistic - MN is for all parents even those with poor grammar and spelling.)

Should we re-house somewhere off Talk? And will it be used/useful if we do? Can we make it work on Talk if not? What would make it easier to use/ more functional?

Should we charge and if so how. What would you pay to use and how would you like to pay it?

Which other boards do this successfully and what are the best ideas/functionality should we pinch?

To ease the pain of waiting for overhaul, next week we will introduce a couple of quick fixes that might hopefully smooth the operation a little, namely we're going to insist that everyone who posts a for sale notice pays a CAT and we'll break down the boards into categories so things are more easily searchable.

In the meantime, please hang on in there and if it all gets too much there's always the hide thread/topic option .

Thanks for your input and your patience.

Peace and love,

Mumsnet Towers

BTW, we seem to have plenty of ideas on the "for sale" part, but "wanted" looks like it is only going to be down to an individual hunting around the 'sale' boards.
Now, I have a loft full of stuff that i need to be prodded to remember - as in 'oh yeah i've got one/two/six of those and i could pass it on...' and I can't be the only one like this. Now that is where we need to get our little old brain cells working. How to make 'wanted' section erm, visible.

aitch, I've looked at the top of the 'for sale' boards. It says 'The For sale topic is intended for Mumsnet members to sell used or unwanted goods' Nothing about it being for mums only. To me this means you simply have to join mumsnet to post on the topic, nothing more. Ok, perhaps I am nitpicking, but since you thew a quote at me, I had to look for myself.

I am totally in agreement that all selling has to be organised in a way that preserves the caring, sharing spirt of mumsnet. Any selling practice that threatens mumsnet's integrity as a parenting site is wrong.
I'm all for taking the for sale threads off active convos.

You also say 'it was never about trading or earning a living but very recently it became so' Well tbh I can't see anything wrong in honest trading and earning a living, as long as MNHQ have the resources to cope with it. (I am not sure if they do). And as long as mumsnet gets a fair revenue from traders.

You and others seem to be making a moral judgement that's pro mums and anti traders. If I read you correctly you seem to be saying that those inaccurate photos of products must come from dodgy traders, not proper mums. I think that's illogical. The seller is not the issue, the goods are the issue.

Lets say I want to buy a christening robe. There are two for sale. Both robes are described as being in excellent, clean condition. One is being sold by a regular mumsnetter whom I recognise. She says her robe has been worn just the once by her ds1. She has a detailed profile as well. The other robe is being sold by a trader. The description is factual only - no mention of who the robe belonged to. I buy both robes. The mum's robe has has rips, stains and looks very worn. The trader's robe is, as described, in excellent, clean condition.

Do I say to myself, oh well, it's perfectly ok that the mum's robe is such a disappointment as she's a real mum, I know her from chat and she said it did belong to her son after all.

I think it's a bit silly to focus on who is selling tbh.

I'd rather see for sale items that are accurately described (so a sellers form you fill in is a good idea imo) with easy to see feedback, than for sale items categorised by how well known you are on mumsnet.

And of course, people who sell a lot on the site and make money, should pay bigger fees to mumsnet whether they are mums or traders.

Tigermoth, that is a very long post, which I fear is straying from the point completely.

Of course, we all know that Aitch did not actually mean "real mums" as in somebody who has given birth, we all know that this forum is frequented by people who have lost their children, or women who are trying to conceive or pregnant, foster parents, step parents, and nannies. And dads. I think she meant members or users of the forum in general.

Tigermoth, you are a very eloquent speaker for the "sellers", you have clear and conscise ideas. I dont agree with all, because I dont like the thought of this being a market place where people come to subsidise their living.

This is really a philosophical debate, what do we want of the sale boards?

a) to make a board where members can pass either through selling or donating unwanted items no longer in use.

b) to make a market place that is open for all traders, on par with Ebay, where everyone registereing as members and paying a small fee can do business.

If the answer is a, fair enough, one must find a way back to how things were, and there has been many ingenious and brilliant suggestions as to how to do this.

If the answer is b it would have to be given serious thought and consideration, legal advice sought, and separated from talk alltogether.

I still like my idea best

Was thinking about how it would protect MNers. Only way I can think is that you would be able to "see" a bit more who you were actually buying from, you could see how long they had been a member, search their posts etc - its only fair that we take those precautions ourselves, its not for MNHQ to police IMO.

I think WANTED and FOR FREE could possibly still have topics?

As an afterthought, I think it quite interesting to note that the people who speak for the sellers have no idea why there is a problem, they do not know what we mean when we speak about community spirit, they dont know why we even want to have a say because we dont trade. That is because trade is mostly what they do, they dont use the resource that is mumsnet. They dont feel lurve that is mumsnet, to them it is just another place to trade farkaboos and fangoboppies.

As Aitch said, the reguler users of the parenting forum that is mumsnet is no longer going there, they are "pushed out" of the boards by this cut-throat trade that is taking place. They feel they have lost something important to them.

There are many other sites where you can sell, and I have indeed seen conversation on the sales boards that the sellers admit they are frequent differnt parenting sites but come to mumsnet to sell.

I like your idea mamagenious. I am sure it can be tweaked.

With your idea we dont need a wanted section, really, we just put in the search box what we want.

Yes my initial thoughts were that we don't need a wanted, but I think gigglewitch watns one

(oh and we could have an individual feedback thread linked to that person's profile, so you can really have a good look!)

Happy to keep it...but not on Talk. Needs to be somewhere you activly (spelling?) need to access if you want it.

QuintessentialShadow
Will you please stop with the them and us again?
There are sellers and people who use and read the sale boards who have posted on this thread who DO use the other boards and are fully aware of the Mumsnet community spirit etc. I am one of them and there are others (granted not alot!) but there are others, so please stop.

it would be quite interesting to have zippis sales on a profile with a little for sale board at the end of the post next to the ecclamation mark and profile sign coupled with a link on a separate classified ads section..

Was there a scrap on the huns board? Link please!

Flier

Why shall I not use a distinction which clearly is there?

You say it yourself, there are posters who use the rest of the forum, and you put in brackets "granted not a lot". You therefore make this distinction yourself.

I accept that there are mumsnetters who use the sales boards, and that there are peopele who mostly (or maybe just to a certain degree) use the salesboards, who also use the rest of the mumsnet forums, in my opinions, these are mumsnetters, not sellers.

Have you noticed a change on the for sales boards during the recent months?
Have you noticed a disgruntlednes spreading across Active Convos as a result of this?

I would not really be bothered - "live and let live" as one poster said to me eloquently, but this is affecting the whole forum now, half of the site have an opinion and are arguing.

It cannot be a good thing.

QS
I have absolutely noticed a huge difference in the for sale boards, so many new names, no profiles, posting only on the for sale boards etc. I've noticed this over the last couple of weeks as well as gradually over the last few months.
To be honest, I don't know why people continue to buy from sellers they really don't "know", I'm only ever happy selling to or buying from fellow "real" mumsnetters, tbh. This is why I think only people who have been members for a set time and set number of posts should be able to sell or buy, as I've said before.

I did feel, though, that people continuing to post about "them" and "us" just exacerbates the whole issue, and this thread is to help MNHQ, not hinder.

i think that what you describe is what, to coin a phrase, the 'regs' would like, flier. it's certainly what i'd like. but there's not much point in pretending that there aren't two factions here when there so clearly is.
i'm surprised that there hasn't been much response from the For Sale boards, actually. why do you think that is? why is word not spreading that the future of that community is at stake?

and tigermoth, yes, you were nitpicking. to a really weird degree actually. as if we could demand some evidence of post-partumn status before letting people sell on MN...
the point is that, wrt your christening robe, i want to buy that on ebay because there's no redress if one of those robes is torn to shreds.
it'll be a huge undertaking for MN if they are to take your attitude that it's the goods that count, and it's a big decision for them i think.

I'm just amazed that so many people have time to look at these threads - I find it hard to wnough to read the stuff I'm interested in

i don't think it should be got rid of at all, but not sure how best to police it either. i've sold various bits on here, but am active on other parts of the site as well. Have also sold a few BNWT items - but i'm not a trader, just trying to get buy the same as everyone else, and thought someone might be interested.

Aitch:

"i'm surprised that there hasn't been much response from the For Sale boards, actually. why do you think that is? why is word not spreading that the future of that community is at stake?"

Well, the answer to that is quite obvious. They dont care about mumsnet, there are tons of other places to trade, so who gives a toss if one sales venue is shut, there is always another one. The lack of an actual community is the reason why they dont bother with the survial of such.

is there any change or update on this situation?

I'm somebody who has used the For Sale boards recently, and am also a regular MNer (although mostly on antenatal and postnatal threads, som many people wouldn't necessarily recognise me as such) - I like using them because for the bits and pieces I have for sale, using ebay would be counterproductive, as they are so low in value ... I've used ebay in the past to sell odds and sods, and ended up out of pocket because of fees and such.

I like the idea of a community (ie the MN community) for sale board, but don't like the fact that things get bumped umpteen times - I feel guilty if I bump my threads once a day! I think I'd prefer a classified ad type situation - and I wouldn't mind having to sign up for CAT for it - I haven't done that before as I can't really see any reason to, but if it were a condition of selling that that happened, 'd be fine with it.

I would also support a lead-in period before anybody was allowed to sell things - that way people would get their reputation before they started to sell.

Separate section (with in an ideal world, the option to sort by age or by area, but hey, I know this isn't ebay!)

Some sort of fee for sellers

Star ratings system for sellers & buyers

Minimum membership time - like bingo (!) - but surely not number of posts - what about all those people who lurk and gather advice but post once in a blue moon?

Agree with others - it's a useful area, I've bought things once in a while (although always after a search to check out what other posts the seller has made ), I'd be sorry to see it go.

lulu apparently its going to be discussed at the next meeting

Surely this is why we need regulation??????

1. Take it out of Talk
2. Limit access to people who have subscribed to mumsnet and been active users for 6 months minimum.

Alternatively you could view it as a commercial money making venture and charge fees accordingly.

VS - could that mean " i don't usually come on for sale ?? haven't looked for other posts though?