I’m concerned about the amount of misinformation on the Covid threads. Mumsnet have a duty of cars to their readers.

[Beadebaser]

A few days ago I reported a post that linked to an unverified claim about a child with vaccine damage from the Covid jab. It is a case that has been weaponised by anti vaxxers and is highly controversial.

The response from Mumsnet was that the post didn’t break guidelines. I pointed out why it was misinformation and was told that their decision had been made - and I could simply turn off the Covid threads if I didn’t agree. I then linked a credible news article explaining why it was misinformation and that the case was being weaponised by anti vaxxers - and Mumsnet didn’t respond.
Misinformation is an online harm and Mumsnet has a duty of care to its readers.

Mumsnet is perhaps different to other social media platforms, as it’s readers often come looking for advice and support. Some readers may be vulnerable. This is why Mumsnet’s duty of care is particularly important.
I think Mumsnet should be doing more to tackle misinformation.
Debate is good, but many posters are being encouraged not to follow the NHS guidelines. If one vaccine hesitant person is deterred from making the right choice due to misinformation - this could lead to a chain of events that could mean someone is unnecessarily in iCU.
Things are pretty critical for hospitals right now, so I think it’s vital that Mumsnet does more to address the issue.

The thread title should read care not cars!!

The link about the child with unverified vaccine damage was on a thread started by someone who was asking advice about vaccinating their child - which is why I was particularly upset by Mumsnet’s response.

I agree with u

They really do need to remove posts which contain "evidence" that has been shown to be false.

Matter of opinion is one thing, but linking to fake evidence which has been debunked is another thing entirely and should be removed. I hope @MNHQ can start taking their responsibilities seriously. They are, at the end of the day, reaponsible for the content on their site and allowing debunked article to float around as "evidence" when people are genuinely worried and asking for advice is dangerous.

It’s not up to mn to scrutinise, research, fact check and correct every post that goes up. There’s lies and misinformation everywhere, this is the one forum where people are actually generally interested in the truth, so there’s always someone ready to challenge any bullshit

@Winniemarysarah according to gov.uk, misinformation/fake news is an online harm and the social media platform are responsible for monitoring. It’s sn issue for Facebook/Twitter etc - but I’m wondering if Mumsnet should really be on top of it because people come here seeking advice.

I think there's a long thred about his already running, I read it just yesterday of the day before. I might be able to find it, other posters definitely agree with you

Yes I agree OP. I think anti-vaxx nonsense should be engaged with as aggressively as possible at this point. I've been reading a website which documents the death of people from covid (Americans on this particular site but the point stands) who were anti-vax. It's horrific. People are dying and leaving their children because anti-vaccination has become some mad crusade. Let alone, as you say, the affect that's having on the NHS and people who work in it. I'm really distressed by it all. Some of the views being put forward seem positively medieval.

Anyway I agree that mumsnet should take a post like that seriously and remove it. It's one thing arguing with people and I think that has its uses, and people can read arguments and slowly work their way through to an understanding of who seems rational and who doesn't, but posting false stories is beyond the pale and needs stamping on.

I agree. If I do venture into the Covid topic I’m astonished at some of the blatant lies/misinformation some posters are posting.

@Winniemarysarah

It actually is. Social media platforms are starting to be held responsible for misinformation on their sites. If something has been debunked and is known to be false, not a matter of opinion but actual bullshit, then site owners need to deal with it. Mumsnet need to step up

I agree with you but doubt they'll do anything. There is at least one anti vaxxer who has been posting vaccine conspiracy theories on here for years - long before anyone had ever heard of Covid.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4444504-I-m-concerned-that-Mumsnet-are-not-doing-enough-to-tackle-misinformation

Here it is, I know it's a long read but might be useful to get more views.

@heldinadream - yes, because it gives a post like that credibility. I stated on the thread that I’d ask Mumsnet to remove the post. And they didn’t, they said it didn’t break guidelines. So perhaps others on that thread now think the post is factual.

www.foxnews.com/media/ohio-woman-daughter-covid-vaccine-reaction-wheelchair

This is the story you are complaining about. It is a mainstream news story. I don't know why you would need it to be censored. It is just a news story and it hasn't been 'debunked'. There is currently no proof that this is the vaccine or not the vaccine - in this particular case. You can quote the general safety stats of the vaccine to some extent, but there is no possibility you or I can tell anyone 100% and with absolute certainty how this particular girl ended up with these injuries, so you cannot claim it is debunked because even Pfizer have not done that, or even made a statement on it.

It is not misinformation. It is information about a case where there is an injury that appeared sometime shortly after the vaccination, in the trial. Those are just the facts. Uncomfortable ones, I grant you, but all the same, not misinformation. The issue here is also why Pfizer did not report this as part of the trial data (which they should whether it is vaccine related or not), so it is important not to censor it.

Thanks - I shall have a read! It concerns me as well that - Mumsnet remain pretty silent/difficult to engage with on the issue. Mumsnet is an advice forum, so I think they need to be particularly careful.

@AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4444504-I-m-concerned-that-Mumsnet-are-not-doing-enough-to-tackle-misinformation

Here it is, I know it's a long read but might be useful to get more views.

That's OP's other thread. Good to keep airing this because I agree that social media companies need to realise that they are responsible for what goes out in their names. It's the old argument - are they to be treated like publishers. Given the harm that's been done with this issue especially I think they must. I hope that governments all over get it together to hold them more to account.

@hamstersarse yes it was that case. I note that you’ve linked foxnews here - but in the other thread it was Facebook.

Here is why it’s controversial:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna4360

IMO the entire COVID topic needs removing, and I said that in the beginning.

it’s a platform for conspiracy theorists, for anxiety sufferers, for people wanting to engage in aggressive debate, and it is doing people’s mental health far more harm than good.

And antivaxx posts need removing and antivaxxers need banning.

MN need to be very careful that legal action isn’t taken against them at some point because of their stance in letting antivaxx and misinformation posts stand.

The cause of the girl’s condition is unclear. Her mother said on a panel held Tuesday in Washington, D.C., hosted by Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wisc., that she was injured by a Covid vaccine administered as part of a Pfizer trial at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital. (Johnson has been widely criticized for spreading misleading claims about the vaccines.) The family’s lawyer, Aaron Siri — who also represents the country’s largest anti-vaccine organization, the Informed Consent Action Network — claims the doctors

spreading misleading claims about the vaccines.) The family’s lawyer, Aaron Siri — who also represents the country’s largest anti-vaccine organization, the Informed Consent Action Network — claims the doctors investigating the case misdiagnosed her myriad injuries as unrelated to the vaccine then downplayed them as abdominal pain. In the meantime, anti-vaccine activists have made the girl a poster child for their cause.

The mother of the girl and the group behind the ad have not provided any evidence that the girl was diagnosed as harmed by a Covid-19 vaccine.

The ad was paid for by the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation, an anti-vaccine group

The ad was paid for by the Vaccine Safety Research Foundation, an anti-vaccine group founded last month by veteran Silicon Valley entrepreneur Steve Kirsch, known for inventing the optical mouse, and more recently for advocating unproven Covid cures and against vaccines, which he calls “toxic.”

Not at all questionable then….

So a woman gets an antivaxx lawyer to represent her and people think there’s nothing suspicious about it? Riiight.

Plus we need to be realistic here. all medical treatment has the potential to cause harm. Even something as simple as paracetamol can cause an adverse side effect in someone.

But we don’t highlight the one off side effect case to try to promote the calls for banning paracetamol or to suggest that it’s dangerous. We instead recognise that the benefit of taking paracetamol far outweighs the potential side effects, and urge people to take where necessary.

Millions of people have now died from COVID. In comparison, anyone who has suffered adverse reactions to the vaccine (and no, a couple of days of flu-like symptoms doesn’t count) is neglidgable.

No I completely disagree. I am continually shocked by how we have moved as a nation towards censorship.

Anyone that posts crazy articles are counter argued and often factually proven to be incorrect by the majority if Mnetters. The more you censor a topic the more fuel you give to the anti establishment ideas.

Where does censorship stop...?

The problem is that Mumsnet - at this present time - are only answerable to themselves. Facebook and Twitter are members of an organisation that monitor online harms, so it is possible to report them through this organisation. Mumsnet are not,

I have actually contacted Ofcom about the issue - but they are unable to help.

@AlternativePerspective

Not at all questionable then….

So a woman gets an antivaxx lawyer to represent her and people think there’s nothing suspicious about it? Riiight.

Plus we need to be realistic here. all medical treatment has the potential to cause harm. Even something as simple as paracetamol can cause an adverse side effect in someone.

But we don’t highlight the one off side effect case to try to promote the calls for banning paracetamol or to suggest that it’s dangerous. We instead recognise that the benefit of taking paracetamol far outweighs the potential side effects, and urge people to take where necessary.

Millions of people have now died from COVID. In comparison, anyone who has suffered adverse reactions to the vaccine (and no, a couple of days of flu-like symptoms doesn’t count) is neglidgable.

See proof, a reply like this is preferable to censorship.