Any chance of a review of the FWR moderation rules in light of Maya Forstater's success in court please?

[ViperAtTheGatesOfDawn]

The belief that transwomen are men and that transmen are women has been accepted as a legitimate and protected belief, yet we are not able to state this on Mumsnet under the current rules.

It has become increasingly difficult to discuss feminist issues on the dedicated feminism boards as a result of the moderation rules.

In light of Maya's success in court, and that 'gender critical' beliefs are considered protected under the Equality Act, would it be possible for the FWR sex/gender mod rules to be re-visited please?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

The fact that R0wantrees was banned for posting something that had been allowed to stand when posted by someone else

good heavens

It was this thread here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=27

R0 received a third strike for a post at 08.21 which was basically the same content as the post made at 19.51.

To be clear the post of 19.51 still stands at the time of me writing this.

Totally agree

I didn't think I could be any more disappointed by MNHQ's approach to this issue...and then I read Justine's reply. FFS.

Either MNHQ just don't get it, or they're scared of angering the TRAs.

If you get three strikes you do get a ban though I think from guidelines?
So not just a case of '' she posted something somebody else did '' if there was what sounds like a backstory behind it?

I agree that discussions about sex and gender are intrinsic to feminism and I think separate boards as proposed are unworkable.

I think the request to have a board where posters could talk about inequality and stereotyping could reflect a particular early stage of feminist consciousness as much as a lack of interest in the threat posed to women's sex-based rights by gender ideology.

In general it is less disturbing to recognise that there are inequalities in the work place and that stereotypical expectations are negative, than to recognise that the whole of women's experience is structured around the threat of male sexual violence and that all men benefit from this. The questions that feminism asks about sexuality and society and our interpersonal relationships challenge us. Sometimes the different positions are characterised as differences between lib feminism and a radical feminist approach but it could sometimes be just the point in her thinking a particular woman is at. Of course lots of women come into feminism 'at the deep end' often precisely because they have directly experienced and recognise male sexual violence.

I don't think anyone should be' protected' from radical feminist analysis but I understand it can be scary because the truths it explains are scary and lots of women don't want to go there or want go there gradually.

But dividing the current board into separate boards, no. Adding a board or pointing women to the other feminism boards, great. They will only work if women want to use them. Clearly women want to use this board.

Yes. The back story is that R0wantrees was targeted by the monitors and reported until enough shit stuck.

It has happened to quite a few if us.

@Quaggars

If you get three strikes you do get a ban though I think from guidelines? So not just a case of '' she posted something somebody else did '' if there was what sounds like a backstory behind it?

No, posts are only deleted if they are reported. R0's post was reported, the other one wasn't. R0 didn't suddenly lose the plot and start posting banned words. That didnt happen, so please stop insinuating it did.

Id just like the law reflected properly. Not areas separated off to appease those who don't like debate.

Forums which fracture in this way arent productive ultimately.

In terms of increasing tolerance its important.

Quite Curious! That’s why so many ppl change names regularly. We know the monitors are watching, reporting & screenshotting

I'm peed off to find that @R0wantrees has a) been suspended and b) not reinstated. A very sensible poster.

Seriously? What for?

It was this thread here ^www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=27^

I can't click onto that thread. Has it been deleted?

Fine for me

I'm not insinuating anything
It was somebody else who said had received three strikes, not me.
I was just saying after three strikes you can get banned as that's what the guidelines say

@Quaggars

I'm not insinuating anything It was somebody else who said had received three strikes, not me. I was just saying after three strikes you can get banned as that's what the guidelines say

She wasn't banned though. I made that clear. She received a weeks suspension that should have ended May 18th. That is what she was originally told.

@Quaggars

I'm not insinuating anything It was somebody else who said had received three strikes, not me. I was just saying after three strikes you can get banned as that's what the guidelines say

And it's 3 in a defined period of time, 6 weeks. So plenty of time for the monitors to strike.

People don't really think trans issues swamp FWR. They think that GC views are transphobic and should not be allowed at all.

This.

Ok let me get this right?

Basically women are being told to move over and welcome our erasure. And now that our views have been given legal validity @JustineMumsnet has just informed us that we should move over, which will ultimately dilute and erase of our voices. On a site predominantly for women.

Righto. I thought Justine asked for money in the form of subs to keep this site going because it had lost funding. And though not specifically stated at the time, we know the site lost funding from certain businesses due to the GC position of a lot of users. Then the pandemic polarised the situation. So not wanting it to go under for me and for others, I willingly paid.

Quite why I paid my subs again recently, I’m not sure. This seems one step closer to removing any threads, which don’t toe the liberal line. Because as others have put so eloquently, it is impossible to disentangle one from the other.

And still doesn’t answer the question of reviewing moderation.

I’m so sad to learn Rowantrees. Another reasoned and knowledgeable woman erased from the site.

@JustineMumsnet

We could just call the topic women's/trans rights I suppose...

I really hope you’re joking. Not that it’s remotely funny.

Gutted & angry that R0 has been vamoushed. She is so bloody knowledgeable.

Also don’t agree with the proposal to excise GC discussion from feminism.

But, back to the OP Please could the question be answered? In light of yesterday’s ruling, please could the rules that prevent GC posters adding polite but truthful opinions be reviewed?

I've just caught up on this thread. I'm very much hoping this I know some of you will be disappointed that we insist on respectful language and inclusivity here when elsewhere many gender critical feminists have had to put up with extraordinary amounts of incivility and indeed downright harassment was just poorly worded @justinemumsnet because otherwise that is incredibly insulting to your site's users. We try incredibly hard to have civil debate and to stay within the nebulous and seemly ever-changing FWR specific Talk Guidelines but as many posters have said, it's incredibly difficult given the many innocuous words/phrases which are not allowed but aren't specified as not being allowed. In terms of inclusivity, I've seen a transwoman's post being deleted when she shared her own personal opinions and experience, none of which were offensive or contentious. How is that inclusive?

And I am very disappointed that Rowantrees seems to be in some sort of purgatory - she's an incredibly balanced and knowledgeable poster and is not incivil or offensive in the least. Targeted harassment of users here by misogynistic monitors who are often here to source 'transphobic' screenshots seems to be tactically allowed for some reason.

Bloody hell MN - are you serious, you're going to use the Maya judgement to hide the GC posters away in a corner!!! Incredibly poor form.

Sorry, didn't @JustineMumsnet properly

@JustineMumsnet I have a better idea.

Sex self ID / sex and gender and related questions are THE main topic of feminism at the moment. This shouldn't be hidden away.

But fair enough if people want a section that doesn't have this topic in it.

So, MN could keep the main topic as feminism (all feminist related topics welcome) and then a sub-topic that's for those who don't want to discuss sex and gender.