Policy on under the radar racism

[Steroidsandantidepressants]

Hi mnhq.

This isn’t a tatt but it’s come to light on another thread that there are a number of issues around tone and language that feels exclusionary to posters from Ireland, the Celtic nations of the UK and America as well.

It’s things like Halloween being decried and how it’s an American import, turnips, mockery of Irish names and their spellings and categorising them as naughty names.

Also the “have a paddy”. The haitch is horrible, Santa is horrible. And an Americanism.

It contributes to a feeling of not being welcome here. And it is a subtle racism.

Is there any chance you could have a chat in the office and come up with a stronger policy that would take this into account?

@Steroidsandantidepressants

Thank you *@LilyMumsnet*.

The point of this post was that there is an under the radar not overt racism in all the “that name is horrible How would anyone know how to spell it” “I’ve never known a that wasn’t trouble” and today’s micro aggressions was that to call Santa Claus Santa was horrible.

That’s a really nasty thing to say about something that is completely normal in huge parts of Ireland and the UK.

It wouldn’t be ok if I spoke pejoratively about the pronunciation of any other ethnic or racial group, or nation, so why is it ok that the Irish are told that the way they speak and enunciate letters is wrong and offensive and like nails down a blackboard?

Because you're still insisting that using Santa Claus or pronouncing haitch is uniquely irish/Celtic and therefore racist. It isn't, and continuing to insist that it is makes you look rather ignorant of other cultures/Nationalities, and guilty of the same behaviour that you apparently find so offensive in others.

None of the examples you've given (with the exception of 'having a paddy' which has already been addressed) represents a culture, ethnicity or national group. None of these are examples of racism. It's simply people expressing a personal preference which is different to yours. You're perfectly within your rights to say that the term Father Christmas is horrible. That's not racism either. It's a disagreement.

Yes personal preferences maybe be expressed in an unpleasant, aggressive, ignorant or small minded ways. None of us like that, but that doesn't make them racist and persisting in trying to tar people who think differently to you as racist because they don't like the term 'Santa Claus' makes you look frankly ridiculous, and guilty of trying to misappropriate genuine anti-racism concerns to further your own agenda.

why is it ok that the Irish are told that the way they speak and enunciate letters is wrong and offensive and like nails down a blackboard?

Where has someone actually posted that the way Irish people speak is wrong and that their enunciation is like nails down a blackboard?

Or have you just extrapolated that from someone saying the haitch pronunciation is like nails down a blackboard and added your own dose of nationalistic generalisation to suit your own agenda?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4011985-The-alphabet-and-H?msgid=99652772#99652772

Thanks for starting this thread @Steroidsandantidepressants. You are quite right.

Just as an example, I'm thoroughly fed up of challenging the is a 'naughty boy name' comments on Baby Names all the time. It's downright ignorant and very depressing.

[quote Steroidsandantidepressants]www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4011985-The-alphabet-and-H?msgid=99652772#99652772[/quote]

@Steroidsandantidepressants
I can't be bothered to scroll through 459 posts if you can't be bothered to at least indicate a date/time where a poster has stated that that the way Irish people speak is wrong and that their enunciation is like nails down a blackboard.

My assumption from scrolling through the first and last 50 or so posts is that no one has said that, as the thread doesn't seem to have escalated in any way, but if I'm wrong and you'd like to indicate the specific post that would be helpful.

About the baby names- I actually hide those threads so wouldn't be aware- are there more Celtic names that get the 'naughty name' response than any other name?

The naughty boy names that leap to my mind aren't Celtic- well there's a Welsh one but it's very specific to a boy I was at school with, rather than a general 'never met a well behaved one'.

Re the spelling, while I can see it's irritating, it's also not that surprising that English speakers fine names which aren't phonetically english hard to spell. My name is hard to spell and people often get it wrong. Not the wrong jane /jayne, but just altogether wrong. Like, say, feebee instead of Phoebe. It's not a Celtic name.

The point of this post was that there is an under the radar not overt racism in all the “that name is horrible How would anyone know how to spell it” bit of a twatty attitude in fairness and on reflection also a micro aggression

"I’ve never known a that wasn’t trouble” does this only happen to Irish names? I have a feeling that my son's name comes up on these types of threads at times - it's not Irish (and he's not trouble 😉)

and today’s micro aggressions was that to call Santa Claus Santa was horrible. Is there a context to this? Just sounds like a personal perspective so unless there is something broader than this which is concerning you, it feels like a bit of a reach.

I never knew about the aitch haitch thing. Couldn't give less of a shit how people say it but it's been interesting hearing this background and I'll definitely be mindful of that in future.

@ShagMeRiggins

FelicityPike do you also feat when Brita do the same? For example, Pakistani-British. Let’s say grandparents on both sides emigrated from Pakistan, both parents born in Britain, and their child born to them.

Is it—in your view—possible to be both from/of Pakistan and also be British, in that scenario?

Actually for me no you are from the country of birth. I am not a German Brit because of ancestry I am British. otherwise aren't we all African British because the human race originated in Africa