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MNHQ

Mumsnet Premium membership - please support us if you can

74 replies

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 13:17

Hi folks,

First and most importantly, I hope you and yours are safe and well, and that you all stay that way.

After 20 years of unreasonableness, rofls, wtfs, advice and support, and the odd lawsuit, it's fair to say that we are as close as we’ve ever been to existential difficulty.

Like many ad-funded businesses, the COVID-19 crisis has seen us take a big hit to our revenues. The businesses who would normally pay to advertise with us are slashing their marketing budgets, but lots of our outgoings are fixed and we so need to find new ways to keep paying the bills.

We’re doing our darndest to find every single saving we can - lots of our staff have volunteered to reduce their hours, we’ve cancelled all non-essential services, I've taken a pay holiday and we will use every scheme and loan available to us from the government and the bank to help tide us over. But we still need to find alternative revenue streams to ensure we don’t run out of funds in a few months...

To put it frankly, it’s squeaky bum time.

I know this is a very tough time for many of you and some of you are only just keeping the lights on yourselves. We’re sending you our solidarity and we most certainly don’t want anyone to stump up anything they can’t afford, but if you can help, please do subscribe now to our Premium service.

We’ve banged this out as fast as possible in response to the current crisis and it’s definitely not the finished article, but it’s free of banner advertising, so if you’ve ever been vexed by those (or use an ad-blocker) this might be right up your alley. Banner ads also tend to make pages render more slowly and take up bandwidth, so if you’re surrounded by bored kids streaming with their mates, step this way.

We’ve opted for a price point that we hope is doable for most and which covers the potential lost ad revenue for the majority of users. We hope £4.99 per month or £49.99 for a year (less than a pound a week!) feels a reasonable exchange for the value Mumsnet brings you, but in any case you can unsubscribe any time.

Over the next little while we’ll look to add some extra features: things that people have requested regularly like editing, sorting posts by the OP, and reading offline.

Rest assured we remain committed to always providing a free version of the site, as we fundamentally believe that access to the advice and support Mumsnet offers should not depend on your ability to pay.

And if you can’t spare any cash right now… then of course we get it. It would still be very helpful if you removed any ad blockers or clicked on affiliate links around the site when you shop, joined our insight panel or even shared the best Mumsnet threads on your social channels whenever you can - it all helps.

If you have any questions at all feel free to post them here and I'll get back to you. We also have a page of FAQs that might answer your question.

Hold tight everyone.

Love

Justine and the team at MNHQ

Go to post

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 17:57

[quote BIWI]@JustineMumsnet I know you considered but discounted asking for donations, in favour of this new premium offer - but it seems like lots of posters would like to make a donation, so why not open that option up as well?[/quote]

I think we'll see where we get to on subscription for now - I'd like to make it really compelling for folks so they saw the value in it and it didn't feel like a gift but a value exchange but obviously I'm not ruling anything out in the current times! Thanks very much for your support btw and take care.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 17:58

@drunkyhumptydumpty

Forgive me not using the right jargon but.

Will the same tech people be running the paid site and the free site?

The site is the same - it will just have a few extra bits and bobs - so yes the same people.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 18:00

So, thanks to all for your input and especially to the 200 odd folks who've already subscribed. It's really much appreciated. I'm going to take a break from this thread and work on getting up some FAQs which hopefully will cover everything on here and more. But obviously please do keep the questions and ideas coming.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 18:57

@Irial

We have around 100 employees earning approx 35k a year. Many of them are highly skilled in sought after roles.

What on earth are 100 people doing for Mumsnet? Is this serious?
There are 100 people working at mumsnet, salaried??

Yes and Gransnet. And they are running the site - tech, product, community management. We have a team running the jobsite. A team running gransnet, a video team, a small data and analytics team, an offers and deals team, a team that runs insight and product tests, a sales team, a finance/admin team, a team that produces mumsnet editorial content, a press team, hr, seo and email management etc...

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 19:04

@CrazyTimesAreOccurring

''the 200 odd folks'' well how rude!

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 19:11

[quote raviolidreaming]**@JustineMumsnet- I deal with payments made by Stripe for a small organisation - I can see names, addresses, email addresses, and the IP address of the device used to pay. Someone at MN will have access to that info from payments

Hopefully this won't be overlooked and some clarity will be given.[/quote]

Yes you are right - we have to have access to that same data in Stripe so we can cancel subscriptions etc. but we don't have access to financial data. We control who in MN has access to the Stripe dashboard where this info is stored. It's fewer than five individuals and have already had thorough training. The key thing is that we don't store the info on our own database.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 19:20

@Epique

*Seems a bit like you put profits before users for a long time (understandable for a business) but now the shits hitting the fan you're coming back to those users you were willing to ignore, to ask for money. While saying you can provide features that have previously been asked for and denied. Repeatedly.

It stinks a bit to be honest.*

This, with a million bells on. What a joke.

Sorry you think that - we did make a decent profit in 2018 but as said lower down that was used to buy out some founding shareholders. We have also invested a lot in people and systems since then. Last year we made a profit of 570k. This year so far we are loss making.

As also said lower down we'll consider expanding the edit feature out to all users if we find it works ok and doesn't cause problems with the way Talk works. Basic site functionality (like search which we intend to improve) will always be rolled out to all users not reserved for Premium members and we will always maintain a free site.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 19:23

@WeAllHaveWings

Why does it feel like MN has just given its closest friends, its posters, a reception only invite during a difficult time for them all?

Friends who have been there for them, reading and posting on their platform for many years, friends who have watched the cash generating ads, friends who they have told to expect the full invite/new functionality, friends who have contributed to making MN the success it is.

If there was a call for donations I would have contributed.
If the request was for a monthly donation for a few months just until the impact of the virus was over to help the site survive I would have contributed.

Both would need to be without giving financial information as I have been here too long and have seen the security breaches of the past.

Subscriptions creating two tiers of posters - "premium" and freeloaders - based on ability to pay goes completely against what I though the MN ethos was. It is a slippery slope.

I certainly wouldn't pay for the privilege of an edit button of any type, it is a terrible idea which will just result in a lack of trust between posters. All it will take is a few posts from the "freeloaders" saying hold on a minute that's not what you originally posted for all hell to break loose!

I don't think it's fair to classify it as "freeloaders' vs premium. It's those who'd prefer to pay for fewer ads and some other non-core features plus some offers, and those who would rather not. I'm quite sure the non Premium members will always outweigh Premium and that's fine. But as said we need to open up other revenue streams given that our main one is under pressure.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 19:42

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad

You're right we're keeping native ads - but we are not paid 6 figures for data by anyone and certainly not by Cadburys and Craft so that's just baloney.

Is it just the price you’re quibbling over there? Or are you saying that you don’t sell profiling behaviour to companies? Can you guarantee that subscribers won’t be tracked?

No we don't. We work with the likes of Google and Amazon to generate revenue through onsite advertising, we are GDPR compliant and never pass any personal identifiable information (such as email or username) to any 3rd party.

When coming to the site for the first time users are asked if they consent to some information being shared with 3rd parties like Amazon and Google and we list all potential 3rd parties. If a user chooses not to give consent they can use the site as normal. You can opt in and out of anything by using our consent management platform which you can access by clicking the 'privacy' toggle on the bottom right on here.

The most common example of data being shared with 3rd parties is the use of advertiser retargeting cookies, these cookies collect behavioural information about where the user has been on site but no detail on what they have posted or any other personal information is collected.

Advertisers will use this information to target advertising campaigns on Mumsnet/Gransnet and once they have left the site. Subscribers will be tracked with standard Cookies (if they consent to it) but a cookie profile is tracked to your browser not to your username or email. We don't sell any PPI information to any 3rd party.

Hope that answers your question?

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 19:45

@ReallyLoveChickens

Hi Justine

Would like to help you out.

Just wondering if you could clarify for me exactly how the two versions would differ?

I noticed the advanced poster search has gone - will this be added if you pay for premium?

Thank you

Hi - advanced search just has a bug which we're working on fixing and it should be back very soon for all. We have no intention of moving any existing site functionality behind a paywall. We've said we'll look to add some non-core additional features - like an edit window and the ability to read offline - plus we'd like to get some really compelling offers and discounts together so subscription feels like good value. We're open to suggestions on any and all of that - would love to know your ideas.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 20:25

@Gobbolinothewitchscat

This is all a bit confusing

Firstly, have you furloughed all the staff you can?

Secondly, it looks like very little to no cash has been kept in the business as reserves. That, to me, is not the sign of a well run business so I would hesitate to pay a year's fees in advance to a company having a liquidity crisis two week's into a global pandemic. What if you go bust 6 month's later down the line? Whilst no business could have predicted that, I would expect a business of this age and size to have some cash reserves for any number of forseeable reasons. I would not pay 12 months of subs for that money to be paid out to shareholders/directors in dividends 3 months later (I assume that is where nearly all of your profits have gone)

Thirdly, why haven't you considered a loan or for drawings not to be paid to shareholders/directors? Has that been seriously considered? That's what the rest of us running businesses will have to do if/when reserves run out.

Fourthly, you can not take a year's subs from a poster and refuse to refund that if you ban them. They are paying in advance for a service that that you will be withdrawing. Therefore, they should arguably be entitled to a refund.

Finally, I do think the FAQ document should have been ready before you asked for money. Arguably, it's not really clear what people have signed up for and I don't think that is fair

We've furloughed everyone who is non-critical for the running of the site or alternatively for bringing in revenue.

Re annual subscription - it's a fair point - we don't have big cash reserves to call on but that's why we're taking all the measures we can to prolong cash in this uncertain time. I'm confident we'll make it through but we do need to try everything we can to open up as much revenue as we can.

We already have a loan in place and have agreed a payment extension. No directors or shareholders are being paid anything. I've taken a pay holiday and many of the team have agreed to reduced hours.

We're working the FAQs now - it's a fair point that we could have had some ready but while we had an idea we wanted to see what the main queries were so we could respond to them.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 08/04/2020 20:43

@Pumpkintopf

Justine I know you mentioned you have a loan in place but presumably you'd be eligible to apply for the Government's Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan scheme (CBILS). Based on your turnover as posted upthread you'd be eligible for a loan of up to £5 million.

www.british-business-bank.co.uk/ourpartners/coronavirus-business-interruption-loan-scheme-cbils-2/

We have a loan and as such we've been advised to negotiate with our current loan providers, which we've done, rather than access the new scheme.

MNHQ

HebeMumsnet · 08/04/2020 21:50

Evening, everyone. The FAQs page JustineMumsnet mentioned is now live so that might answer some of your questions. We've popped a link into her OP, too.

MNHQ

soniamumsnet · 09/04/2020 12:01

Hi @Holdingmybreath,

Sorry you're having problems with the site - we'll email you in a minute and try to get to the bottom of it for you.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 12:11

@MrsNoah2020

You have been hacked before but I wasn’t concerned as my personal details are not linked to a card. I would have been very worried if they had

Actually it was worse than being hacked: a member of their staff had access to data and chose to leak it. MN's response was to downplay massively - a big mistake, which is now coming back to bite them as poster after poster raises data protection concerns.

Hi - I don't think it's quite the full picture to say that this employee "chose to leak" data. The intern in question put a screengrab of MN post that she'd made when employed at MN on Twitter. Because she had an admin view of the post at the time she took the screengrab, this post also showed an IP address (something that is no longer the case).

Obviously it was not good that she screen-grabbed the post when in our employment in order to potentially publish it to suit her own ends at a later date but it wasn't her intention to leak the IP address - it's was in tiny text at the bottom of the post and very easy to miss - it was accidental.

She was in fact distraught about her mistake, deleted the post immediately and no other data was compromised besides that one IP address very briefly.

Tbh any organisation is going to make some bad hiring decisions. We've taken every step to improve our training and our recruitment as much as we can but we are as vulnerable to bad apples as anyone else.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 12:24

@Binterested

I think some advertisers have probably pulled out because of FWR. But that’s because MNHQ have hedged their bets. They’ve tacitly accepted that calling people with penises men is transphobic. As opposed to truthful.

They won’t stand up and present a massive forum of women speaking truthfully to each other as a good thing. They’ve been craven and tried to appease the MRAs at our expense and it doesn’t work.

There is space for a massive forum of women who share honestly with each other on subjects ranging from new prams to racism to vaginal prolapse to pop to abusive relationships to happy relationships. All of these are spoken about truthfully and candidly on here and advertisers buy into that . All apart from the ‘women with penises’ issue where we are monitored, controlled and gaslighted - with the collusion of MNHQ.

My argument is that MNHQ should stand up for their business model. It’s a model built on sharing, communication and honesty between women. This is very appealing to many advertisers. MNHQ need to have the courage to stand up for their model and for women.

The thing I think that this argument (which I appreciate has been posted several times on this thread) misses, is that not all Mumsnetters agree with the received wisdom on the FWR forums that we should be more robust in our stand. In fact many have expressed concern that the tone on the FWR boards towards Trans people is unpleasant and unnecessary. It's not as simple as you're not standing up for the women of Mumsnet. The women of Mumsnet (rather than just a board on Mumsnet) do not all have the same position. We have tread an, admittedly tortuous at times, line of allowing debate of the issue but trying to keep the tone respectful. That does entail taking people's feelings into account, as well as doing our best to keep censorship to the minimum. I've no doubt we're inconsistent sometimes but moderation of this hasn't been an easy task.

One thing is for absolute sure though it costs us much more to run FWR (both in terms of moderation effort, legal costs and loss in ad revs) than we make in ad revenue from it. The reason we do it isn't for profit it's because we believe there should be somewhere mainstream where these issues can be debated.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 12:30

@TodaysNameChange

No disrespect, but that could have been written to avoid disclosing the gender sex or whatever of the culprit. Isn't that what "they" and "their" were invented for ?

I think the identity of the culprit is well and truly out. - she outed herself when she posted the screengrab on Twitter and she's been named on this thread too...

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 12:57

@PheasantPlucker1

Justine Emma Healey taking photos of members personal data, keeping it for several months then posting it on twitter was not a mistake.

It wasnt a slip of the thumb.

It was deliberate, and illegal.

I think its actually hilarious youre asking people to give you bank details while still defending your staffs illegal activities with our personal data

I'm making a distinction between two different things:
Her deliberate copying and pasting of a publicly available MN post which wasn't illegal or a data breach but was certainly disappointing and unprofessional.

And secondly her posting of personal data in the form of the IP address - which was accidental and immediately withdrawn. The ICO incidentally took no steps against her. I'm not saying what she did was without blame. But it wasn't a deliberate data breach as it was described.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 13:27

@PheasantPlucker1

JustineMumsnet Emma Healey copied the data as admin, not as user. Why?

She kept hold of it for several months, for future use. Why, when it was all still vailable to view to anyone?

There was never any answer, just cries of poor Emma didnt mean it.

Emma herself admitted in the original post she had kept admin data to share.

I think your stance on defending staff over your users may come back to bite you in the arse now you need money off the same users you screwed over!

She kept a post. She screengrabbed it when she was logged in as an admin.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 13:29

@Binterested

Justine your minimising of the data debacle is not the right approach at the same time as you are asking for support. Again. Your business. Own it.

I'm not minimising it - I'm trying to get the facts straight as there's a lot of misunderstanding of what actually happened as I see it.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 13:41

@PheasantPlucker1

JustineMumsnet

Thats exactly the problem.

Your staff screenshot private data and shared it on twitter. You call this an accident.

Now youre asking us to provide bank details.

What has been put in place to ensure these "accidents" dont happen again?

No... I call the screenshot of the post on Mumsnet deliberate. The fact that it included an IP address in teeny little digits at the bottom of image was an accident. Leaking data was not the reason the post was copied. I realise I'm being a bit pedantic but it is simply wrong to say this was a deliberate data breach. It was childish and unprofessional to screengrab and post a derogatory comment about the community of a former employer but not a deliberate attempt to dox.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 17:50

@teawamutu

I've subscribed because I think MN is hugely important, especially the FWR board.

But I would like you to reconsider allowing TRAs to either report without joining, or join, fail to contribute and then report. I think moderation should be on the basis of active members' views or you're allowing people who contribute nothing to game the system.

I just want to pick up on the idea that we simply remove stuff because it's reported by non-members or single issue activists and that this happens a lot. In fact we've had zero reports on trans issues by email since the beginning of the year.

And when posts are reported we look at the post in context and apply our guidelines to decide whether or not it warrants deletion. Posts on both sides of the trans/ womens' rights debate are reported overwhelmingly by long-standing mumsnet members who are active on the site. When it's clear that people are reporting vexatiously on posts that do not require deletion we deal with that appropriately, and we have banned people who are only here to promote a single issue or to censor the conversation around a single issue.

Ultimately our aim is to consider only one thing though, whether posts are made within our guidelines and if they're not, they go.

MNHQ

KimMumsnet · 09/04/2020 17:50

Hiya @Cismyfatarse - you should now be seeing fewer ads and shouldn't see any of the banner ones – the image-based ads that tend to take up bandwidth and slow down page loading times.
Kim

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 09/04/2020 17:51

@Xiaoxiong

Well, I've just paid my £50 - I don't really see it as a premium membership, more as a tip jar for all the value that this site has given me over the last 10 years.

10 years ago it was pregnancy and the antenatal buses - then advice on everything to do with babies, then kids, then school, and over the last 2 years FWR has been an absolute bastion of sanity (I was "peaked" by Caitlin Jenner being named woman of the year, came to MN to see if anyone else was as furious as me and discovered FWR).

So thanks for all of it @JustineMumsnet

Thank you

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