Vanishing posts on the Jess Phillips thread

[Mner2000]

Numerous posters (here) have noted that their posts were removed from the Jess Phillips thread before and after the event (here) and there being nothing noted on the thread itself that there is no accompanying deletion message on the thread itself.

The Daily Mail clearly has a screen grab of StealthPolarBear on 20/01/2020 13:31.17 that is no longer on the thread - without an accompanying thread deletion message like is normally there.

Is mumsnet against free speech and rigorous debate? Politicians must robustly account for their actions where their policies affect so many. If they cannot do this on a Mumsnet forum, how will they manage in parliament?

Self ID is not single issue - it affects every area of national and regional policy. Maybe if Jess had been able to see a better range of comments, it would help her understand this better and if she had seen the number of comments, it would help her see just how many people are concerned about the real impacts of policy change on such a large level. She says herself that some of the issues raised on the thread were not ones she had come across on the doors but yet we are not allowed to ask them here. This would have been the ideal opportunity to raise awareness of the many, many issues involved.

There must be a better way to arrange these webchats than just deleting people's comments and concerns without trace. What about grouping the questions by topic.

I think MNHQ actions were outrageous. Won't bother wasting my time on any further webchats, what's the point?

Exactly. Would MNHQ have done the same if the thread had been flooded by TRAs? The TRAs would be going mental if their posts had vanished into thin air. This was not handled well at all.

There has to be a middle ground, such as a thin bar of comment that says something like ‘duplicate question - women’s spaces ‘ etc.

Jess Phillips herself stated that ‘thousands’ of working class women whose doors she knocked on over the last 5 years never mentioned the subject. If MNHQ are complicit in making questions vanish then how do we hold politicians to account when they refuse to address the issue?

Yes that's a good point Saucery, this idea that because no one has asked hem the question then it never happened is being reinforced by this censorship, 'well we asked the people of mumsnet but only three people made a comment so it can't be a real issue to them or women in general.'

There has to be a middle ground, such as a thin bar of comment that says something like ‘duplicate question - women’s spaces ‘ etc.

But they weren't all duplicate questions. Many of the deleted questions were about different aspects of an enormously complex issue.

As it stood in the end, a question about Labour's response to women holding a meeting had to be removed so that one could be asked about the spousal exit clause in the GRA. I don't see how it could be argued that these were both the same question.

Has anyone been excommunicated and why does the mail say there are no comments on that piece (which I find hard to believe)?

Pretty sure Jess Phillips - like the rest of the world - knows that Mumsnet is full of "gender critical feminists". I don't think you need to worry that your opinions haven't been noted.

MNHQ allowed the questions to be asked and made sure Jess addressed them - she spoke more on trans issues and women's rights than any other topic. It's right that no one topic dominates an entire webchat. Other people have other concerns and deserve to have those heard.

MNHQ made it very clear they were removing posts on certain topics and the reasons why. There's no point only focusing on one issue in a leadership debate.

Not so much gender-critical but biology believers. But yes, the question was asked and the got enough rope.

Any followup questions or comments were a waste of time (it would be like Greta trying to explain climate change to Donald - which I do hope she does as Davos).

I know, OldCrone, but it's MNHQ making the arbitrary decision about lumping all the questions together and making them disappear as if they never existed.
They are misrepresenting a large group of members as troublesome and bothering webchat politicians with versions of the same issue.
I'd prefer if they left all the questions up, but they don't want to. A loose summary of what subject they consider deleted questions to fall under is a better summary than nothing at all.

It's not just the posts that have disappeared

They've vanished Lang too

MNHQ made it very clear they were removing posts on certain topics and the reasons why. There's no point only focusing on one issue in a leadership debate.

I don't agree with this angle at all, but it's MNs site and they can do what they want - but in the interests of clarity and fairness, deleted posts should always leave a message stating something has been deleted.

Between this and the promoter who removed comments about sanitary protection for trans people, it seems MNHQ is vanishing comments on specific topics only, which doesn't seem right.

@AnchorDownDeepBreath I do agree there should be a deletion message rather than just completely disregarding people

MNHQ clearly stated after the first few questions that they would be deleting any further questions on gender ID. If they put a deletion notice up every time, it would interrupt the flow of the web chat and I think you have to respect that for most people it’s not the only issue they are interested in.

Ok - but these deletions are being counted as ‘strikes’ which is pretty unfair, especially if posters post their question or response on the hoof (as many of us do) and deletion emails aren’t sent out (which they haven’t always been). Very easy way to get yourself excommunicated...

It’s a false representation of the issues that concern existing users of the site.
Everyone else is free to post their question. The politician doing the Webchat is perfectly capable of reading through all the questions and choosing what they want to answer.
MNHQ swooped in after a tiny amount of questions concerning the rights and safety of women and accusations of ‘shouting’ and ‘haranguing’ were bandied about by them. Belittling, then erasing. Not a good look for a site that courts people in the public eye to engage with women.

And politicians are just not capable of robust debate are they?

The thread as it stands is disingenuous to both the Mners who took the time to engage respectfully on the thread and to Jess who can continue to see it as a fringe issue. There needs to be a better indication that posts have been removed.

As a PP said, a quick line just to say post removed for repetition of self id would be better than the thread as it stands.

Poor Lang

Lang's been banned?????? FFS. Permanent or temporary?

Bring back Lang !

Permanent by the sounds of it Jux

Reform of the GRA has been Jess's pet cause since she was part of the Trans Equality Inquiry in 2015-6. What became apparent during that webchat was that she didn't know how the GRA works now, before any reforms. I was really shocked how misinformed she was. I'm not even talking about differences of opinion - she was actually, factually wrong.

Of course she could and should have read the legislation for herself before backing any position on reform but we could have cleared up these simple factual errors years ago if we had only been allowed to have the discussion.

This is where shutting down debate gets us.

It was very kind of Empress to arrange for her question to be swapped for Tinsel's. Given Jess's comments over recent days it was very important that she be asked to clarify her views on the spousal exit clause. But I wanted Empress's question to be asked too. They were very different questions.

The way this webchat was moderated - the total disappearing of posts - is sinister as fuck. It's the level of censorship you'd expect on a website somewhere like China. Not only is it unfair on MNers, it's unfair on webchat guests to be shielded not only from questions, but from the evidence that questions were asked in the first place.

It's an astonishing level of interference and manipulation.

MNHQ clearly stated after the first few questions that they would be deleting any further questions on gender ID. If they put a deletion notice up every time, it would interrupt the flow of the web chat and I think you have to respect that for most people it’s not the only issue they are interested in.

And how do you know if your post is a duplicate if the other posts have been deleted? Especially if you think your angle is different and not a duplicate?

And to have the threat of deletion mentioned?

Pencils - spot on post.

how do you know if your post is a duplicate if the other posts have been deleted?

There were 4 or 5 posts left up so you'd just read them and not post about that