Deleted posts / Suspension warnings - FWR

[GirlDownUnder]

FWR - don’t groan, I can hear you from here!

There are special mod’ing rules and very keen outside moderators for the FWR forum. Infraction warnings and deletions feel arbitrary, and unfriendly from a user base.

To help us, your user base, it would be useful if there was a ‘deleted post count’ and ‘rolling total’ on our profiles so we’d know where we are. Specially as there is a rolling count over 6? weeks, and we are not generally advised on post deletion.

If this is something you’d consider, what would you need from us to facilitate this?

Thanks as always for your time and attention.

Agree

If other people can see how many warnings

Opps sorry - I mean on the private bit of our profiles, otherwise yes it’d be like bloody bingo or wack-a-mole!

I agree girl

From what I’ve heard people are just being told that they are on a final warning...and not told about warnings 1 and 2

This could just be down to a breakdown in communication...but it’s horrendously unfair

I agree. Also, I know modding is hard work and you do a great job in difficult circumstances .

Can I just respectfully observe though, that some things deleted on FWR seem within guidelines and would never be deleted on AIBU, for example. Leaning readers quite baffled.

But for all I know, you receive 10 reports on every post and are trying to keep both “sides” happy as it were!

10 reports on every post

Wasnt there a threat back in the day that vexatious reporting would also be a bannable offense

I’d say that reporting ‘bless’ and ‘ yawn’ was pretty fucking vexatious

Also reporting recipe suggestions.

And a particularly low form of life has been reporting posts by a woman in the US fleeing abuse who is having to camp out because she can’t find a penis-free shelter.

There should also be a running total of post reports as clearly some posters are desperate to report any hint of an infringement. I've been deleted once to my knowledge and it was beige to say the least,,,,

lso reporting recipe suggestions

Unless its the weetabix horror

And a particularly low form of life has been reporting posts by a woman in the US fleeing abuse who is having to camp out because she can’t find a penis-free shelter

Yep

yes, I got banned by a rather over enthusiastic mod and then reinstated when I politely enquired what was going on

i'm an entitled middle class type so have no problem seeking clarification when necessary. but others may not feel able to do the same and may be unfairly losing their posting rights

I would say that the arbitrary and sometimes unfair wielding of sanctions does leave posters feeling like they're walking on egg shells

I would also say that for a site that seems to set such a store by enforcing civility among its users, moderators can show a surprising lack of civility to posters, and communication can be very poor at times

however I do appreciate that moderating can feel like a thankless task, and I would guess FWR attracts the attention of some fairly demanding characters

I do agree that at the very least people should be told when one of their posts is deleted, and why. This is really pretty basic, and isn't reliably happening.

I agree that letting posters know about warnings is really important - it shouldn't be a shock to posters to find that they're on a final warning.
I also wonder about vexatious reporting. I do wonder whether some posters and external 'monitors' are given excessive reporting rights? This was acknowledged originally by MNHQ - I wonder do you keep statistics about this?

And a final thank you to the Mods - I know it must at times to be a thankless task but I can see that it is done generally with skill and empathy. Thank you.

Although mostly the modding here seems eminently careful and reasonable, on occasion - particularly at weekends, which is also when FWR sees most community disruptors - the modding cover seems a bit over ban ready.

We are already held to a higher and different standard to the rest of Mumsnet on Feminism Chat. Modding - and the posting rules - need to be clear so nobody can offend by accident.

I remember a recent deletion for use of the very useful phrase "peak trans". The phrase had already been used hundreds of times yet suddenly it was forbidden. I believe it was reinstated eventually but this sort of thing shouldn't come out of a clear blue sky.

I understand that the Feminism Chat board in particular (and perhaps Mumsnet more generally) is under more or less obsessive scrutiny by TRAs who report anything they think could potentially offend. I have to objection to reports about actual hatred of transgender people. However this sort of post normally are one offs posted by TRAs themselves to provide screenshots.

However, genuinely offensive posts aside, does @MNHQ allow any other group of external critics to tone police their forum in this way. It is surely increasingly obvious that parents on a parenting forum have every right to discuss the issue of child transition in the most open way?

I hope you are keeping tabs on what percentage of reports are by Mumsnet users and what come from outsiders. To my mind their attempts to silence women are profoundly misogynist and totalitarian.

The attempts to control, silence or derail Feminist threads reveal the desperation of TRAs/MRAs. I think sometimes the mods are too inclined to think the best of these invaders. I've seen it suggested that the mods undergo the Freedom Programme, not because they're victims of domestic violence but so they immediately recognize behaviours like coercive control. Sounds like a good idea. It's a very short course.

Hi @MNHQ

I know it’s only been a couple of days since this was pasted, but what says you?

I'd be interested to read your response too @MNHQ

The rules/double standards are confusing, to say the least and I say this as somebody who has been using this site for 14 years, during which time I've seen many a post stand because it was on a non FWR thread, yet so many unwarranted deletions imposed at the drop of a hat with no rhyme or reason on FWR.

It would be useful to know when you have had a comment deleted.

I happened to notice I'd had a deleted comment at the weekend (something admittedly I hadn't worded well), but on a fast-moving thread, or when I'm MNing on my break from work I wouldn't usually look back.

If there is a three-strikes rule, people need to know if they have a peg down.

I think in a strange way, all the reporting (and deletions in response) must be a compliment to how important MN is seen by some. Otherwise why bother?

Other feminist boards don’t have compelled pronouns, and are less eggshell-walking generally. I can only assume the monitors care less about what women say there.

And people shouldn’t be able to report “yawn” or whatever, just ignore it for goodness sakes.

What is FWR? I googled what it stands for and only found a towing company?

However, with regard to deletions and bannings, I have a friend (interpret that how you wish) who has been banned before for no other reason than she was warned twice before, yet the third time she was not in the wrong, she was being attacked and abused. And because a goady person was reporting her posts, she was banned. Despite the fact that her personal life (age difference in marriage) was mocked and her husband was insinuated to be a paedophile (both are well over 18).

The reason for her banning? It was her third 'talking to'. Which was unfair that it counted, when she had being abused and her husband besmirched. There was absolutely NO leeway that there were extenuating circumstances. The Mods were simply interested. The fact is they spoke to her twice before, and a third time, guilty or not, she was banned permanently. It was so unfair on her. The comments about her marriage and her husband were disgusting and way out of line. Yet they wouldn't waver from the (we spoke to you twice before) rule.

I myself have been the victim of a certain goady poster who was trouble-making and reporting my posts for the flimsiest of reasons and they really did not deserve to be deleted, I felt. The over-moderating on here is absolutely suffocating, and you feel like you're walking on eggshells. Even the American forums aren't as precious and over-zealous. The irony is I find it's a bit like Facebook. You get reported for trivial reasons, you receive a temporary ban. Yet the person who reported you is far more aggressive, snide and nasty, and guess what? THEIR posts remain! And sometimes the mods say "it doesn't break our guidelines".

The modding on here is getting a bit like Facebook. People are goaded or vexatiously reported. And the mods just go along with it, while not deleting the instigators.

I think being able to block posters that seem to deliberately goad you, taunt and upset you would be a wise idea. It would perhaps cut down on a lot of suspensions/bannings as if you block someone/each other, you can't argue and then can't get into trouble. I think that really is an idea MN should explore. It would probably also mean less work for the mods, too.

Ah, thanks Spartacusautisticus, that makes sense no in relation to the whole thread.

Makes sense *now

Also reporting recipe suggestions.

But why are people going on about recipes in some of the threads? What do you think a recipe adds? The sole reason it to drown out what is being talked about with irrelevance. It's people thinking that a topic shouldn't be allowed to take place and going about stopping it. If Mumsnet were a cafe it would be the same as hearing 2 people talk about a topic you think is unworthy (Love Island?) and shouting "blah blah blah!" at the top of your voice to end the conversation.