Urgently need to contact a moderator

[Palace13]

I have serious concerns for another member's safety.
Need to speak privately to someone about this.
I believe the person requires an urgent police welfare check.

[Thisisthelaststraw]

What’s the tread? Has someone had police land at their place of work?

[NoCauseRebel]

So where does this allowance to involve outside authorities end then?

Right now someone says that a poster (we don’t know who they are, where they live, what their name is only that they claim they’re going to kill themselves) is going to commit suicide and mn send the police round. Do they draw a distinction? First-time poster perhaps would that count? What if it’s the partner of someone who is in an abusive relationship who sets up an account in their name, makes the suicide threat on here and bingo, the police come round and they have mental health concerns on the record for the residence dispute. Remember there are a lot of posters on here who are in abusive relationships and come here for support. It wouldn’t take a genius to work out that this kind of system could be used against them by an abusive partner or ex partner.

Or what if someone claims to be being abused? Or what if they claim their partner is abusing the kids, right here, right now?

The absolute reality is that any post on Mumsnet is just words on a screen. There is absolutely no way of knowing that a poster is who they say they are. Hundreds and hundreds of posts are deleted on a daily basis on the basis they are believed to not be genuine. So why is it that it must be assumed that a poster threatening suicide is both genuine and also that it’s ok to involve the police and keep the thread running for hours and hours despite the advice and guidance from professionals in this area while in the meantime triggering other posters who may also feel suicidal but who won’t reach out in case they too are prevented.

Remember that when people don’t reach out it’s usually because they don’t want to be stopped.

[EntirelyAnonymised]

Indeed, Rebel. It’s a minefield. Blanket policy of deletion is the best policy. Stay out it and delete.

[Ooplesandbanoonoos]

I think it is reassuring to hear that mumsnet do this. Often I have seen worrying threads about an adult or child at risk and felt powerless to do anything.

[TantrumsAndBalloons]

It’s not reasurring- it’s words on a screen and it’s not for Munster moderators to decide when to intervene especially as the Samaritans advise non intervention

[NunoGoncalves]

This thread is a good example of why you should probably read the T&Cs before you give personal information to a website.

[LeesPostersAreInFrames]

What am I missing?

Somebody appears to be in immediate danger of death by suicide. "You" (in this case, Mumsnet) hold data on that person which could identify them or their location. You could send all the information you have to the police/appropriate agency, who might be able to get to the person and intervene.

Who, in their right mind, would say "oh well, I can't go ahead and tell the police and potentially save a person's life, because ethically is not the right thing to do"

[UtterlyUnimaginativeUsername]

To be honest, I'm inclined to think the real breach of trust here was the police. There was no need for anyone else at the person's workplace to know what was going on, surely? That was terribly indiscreet.

[FriarTuck]

Remember that when people don’t reach out it’s usually because they don’t want to be stopped
Not necessarily. It may be that they think no-one cares, they don't know who to turn to, they don't feel able to reach out or they don't realise that they need help and that help is out there. I was close to suicidal as a teenager but I didn't reach out because it didn't occur to me that there was anyone that I could reach out to - the only thing that stopped me was being so damn logical that I couldn't think of a foolproof method of doing it.

[mirime]

the Samaritan's, whose advice MN supposedly take, advocate non intervention.

That's what they do. When drawing up a policy with another organisation that may be different. Mumsnet is not the Samaritans.

I often get calls from distressed people due to my job. Generally I will signpost to the appropriate service in the area, but if they were talking about suicide or self harm I would ask their permission to call for some assistance for them - obviously there is a limit to what I can do if they won't give me any details. As an organisation there have been a couple of occasions when we've had to contact the police or call an ambulance for someone.

[AnxietyDream]

When I called emergency services as a person I was speaking to in 'real life' was threatening to kill themselves I was told it was not a police matter (as no one else was in danger), but a mental health issue and they sent an ambulance. Don't know if it depends on area.

[TwitterQueen1]

Do we actually have any proof that this happened Utterly? Or is it just rumour and whispers?

[FriarTuck]

But I can see NoCauseRebel's viewpoint on the rest though. It is a tough one.

[NoCauseRebel]

Thing is, do we actually know that the police went to this person’s work? That sounds somewhat implausible to me if they posted from home last night and are now posting that the police showed up at work? How do we know that the police even did show up or that the thread isn’t just someone having a laugh and looking to make a mockery of mn?

@LeesPostersAreInFrames whenever a thread is flagged as suspicious on mn and they’re not sure either way whether it’s genuine they always respond with words to the effect of “obviously we can never know for certain that anyone on the internet is who they say they are,”. So if they can’t be sure of that in terms of someone posting that little Johnny didn’t get a party invite then there’s absolutely no way of knowing that someone claiming to be about to commit suicide is purely by the data they hold on them.

Did you sign up here with your rl name? I didn’t. Neither does my email address point to my name,and sometimes I am on my home WiFi but sometimes I’m on mobile data, or at family’s house, or hospital WiFi, there is absolutely no way of knowing without considerable amounts of intervention who. Am. And the truth is that if there was then mn would be able to prevent the recurrent trolls who post here from coming back time after time after time and yet they’re not.

[GabsAlot]

your worried about data breach when the df are on here scouring for stories andprinting them?

[TheHolySmirk]

You do have a point Tigek .

Anyone actually needing to contact MN could just email them like a normal person.

It's that need for attention and drama that makes the whole 'outside agencies' thing so outrageous.

Of course MichaelMumsnet could also have told them to keep it off the boards and stick to email.

Or clarified the MN position on calling the fucking police on posters.

[HaventGotAllDay]

Have those words always been in the blurb?
This is way overstepping the responsibilities of a parenting forum and IMO could open a can of worms large enough to swallow the site whole.
You do it for one, you're going to have to do it for all of them for starters.
Are you going to start sending the police round to every poster who's been hit by their partner?
In 15 years the only eyebrow raising intervention I remember seeing was on Zombiegate night when the weirdfucker playing puppet master was apparently in contact with HQ at all stages which was odd enough (if true) (especially once everyone knew who the rescuee was) but this takes it to another level.

[HaventGotAllDay]

What will HQ do about the threatened suicide who they decide is a troll? And who then dies? Is there going to be some kind of hierarchy?

This is really really weird.

[EntirelyAnonymised]

There was an intervention wayyyyyy back when. Early 2000’s when the site was tiny and much more ‘private’ and personal feeling than it is now, we ‘knew’ each other. In the event, that poster was ‘genuine’ and was pleased that someone had intervened. Things were different then and we were probably (definitely) pretty naive in terms of security and privacy. It’s definitely not advisable these days.

[EntirelyAnonymised]

The thread in question has been deleted now, btw.

[NoCauseRebel]

What will HQ do about the threatened suicide who they decide is a troll? And who then dies? Is there going to be some kind of hierarchy? well, how will they know if that poster dies? After all this is an anonymous Internet forum. Someone posts here one day and not the next, there is no way of knowing what happens to them is there?

Many posters here name change monthly, so even the same poster here could have 25 different usernames and nobody would ever know who they are. And it’s unlikely that someone’s partner is going to post here that a suicidal poster killed themselves because mn didn’t intervene when they themselves didn’t.

[EntirelyAnonymised]

Mumsnet will not be responsible (legally or morally) for a person’s death just by deleting a thread.