“Racism” towards the Irish on here

[Giantbanger]

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

And to be strictly accurate, the executed men in 1916 were afforded trials - field general court martials. Ireland was under martial law so “normal” judicial process was suspended.

It’s not quite the same thing as being shot without trial.

I reluctantly agree. It's not a hostile kind of racism, as in we don't like your kind round here. It's more that the English completely and truly believe that being English is better, more civilised somehow. I don't care that much though. I sometimes chime in on the threads but most of them haven't been to Ireland. The rest of Europe prefers us, favours us even. Swings and roundabouts.

It was being shot without trial.

Did you know as an English woman that you assasinated the signatories to the Proclamation without trial? Just answer truthfully. Did you know that?

Woah. Think this is getting a bit out of hand. I'm not a fan of accusing people of being responsible for past atrocities when they weren't even alive...

No, you’re wrong. They were afforded essentially military trials, and almost all of them declined to recognise the court or enter a plea.

Thank you Sakura 7.
On what topic on Mumsnet was the deleted thread ?

You're actually defending the execution of 8 men? Without trial?

I’m not defending anything m, FFS

I’m pointing out your historical inaccuracies. They were afforded a trial under the existing regime - martial law (inadequate though we may feel it might have been)

Where do you think the records of the 1916 trials come from, for goodness sake? How else do we get Connolly’s speech to the court?

You think you gave them the option?
They declared Ireland a Free State so you shot them.

You don’t actually know what you’re talking about, do you.

The 1916 rebels declared a “Free State”, aye right

Ireland isd a free state now though, so you can bugger off with your Brexit worries. Deal with it yourself. We don't want it.

@LadyGregorysToothbrush

This is demonstrating the raised temperature of debate around nationalism really well. No English woman on here is going to have shot anyone ( or they are very unlikely to) it simply isn't helpful to pretend they have. Every country has atrocities of one sort or another in its past, the blame for these cannot be laid in the present tense on current generations.

Yes, that's exactly what they did in the 1916 proclamation. All of the signatories to that were then shot dead in Dublin.

Some great posts on here.
I bet it the original poster was goading other races/cultures the post would have been zapped straight away.
Even if it was about literature and an 'interesting' discussion had followed.
Shame on you mnhq.

And it's ok because we were under marshall law by you lot? We really were not. You lot came in and murdered us.

Agreed. I'm half Irish and wasn't pleased to see that statement.

With regard to Brexit, I think the British politicians' irritation with Ireland that they're not capitulating to the demands of the British government shows that they're grappling with Ireland's right to suit its own interests first on this one! I respect (and I'm relieved) that Leo and Simon not at all afraid to put Ireland's interests above Britain's.

Just because you declared it marshall law, doesn't mean that was what it was. Lol. Is that what you were taught?

beanaseireann it was in AIBU

she I cannot comment in detail on Ireland but I know in Scotland it was never that simple. There were always Scots on both sides, killing each other. History is often pretty grey and murky.

Agree, Varadkar won't be messed with easily. He's a doctor, so from the Irish education system, that means he scored in the top 1%. He is very confident. He won't be pushed over. Arlene however is throwing a strop.