Post deletions but MNHQ not against talk guidelines?

[ShirleyPhallus]

Hi MNHQ

I have posted twice on a thread to ask for clarification around talk guidelines - my post has simply asked how come so many posts are being deleted which don’t seem to contravene guidelines... except those posts are being deleted too.

Please can you clarify what is breaking talk guidelines?

The thread is this, and at the moment posters are just saying which accounts they like - nothing controversial or inflammatory

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3335830-To-think-that-instagram-has-jumped-the-shark?msgid=80222878#80222878

@ivegotatheoryitcouldbebunnies1 is ne more worried about the opposite. Given the people coming over on the back of a post on Instagram it looks dreadful and they will all gleefully post back how they’ve had all the comments taken down and it really does look like every poster was just bitching and that will do far more harm than good. Some people posted positive comments and not one said anything that the IGer thought they had said. That’s a pretty toxic situation for a vulnerable person.

The issue with fake history is that it just stokes things and potentially makes things worse in the long run. It was clear that people jumping on hasn’t RTFT and there were a lot of Chinese whispers going on. It further fans the assumption that one person was being viciously attacked rather than having closure for them I think.

For the record after I posted my post trying to make clear what the OP was about did contact MN directly to ask them to change the OP or title to make it clear... they didn’t and it was a few hours after this when I suspect they were threatened by legal action again they started being trigger happy deleting.

*hadnt RTFT

Is it not more MNHQ being respectful? I can’t imagine how anyone could take legal action against people discussing things on an open Instagram account with nearly 25k followers, when everything discussed was put out there by the account holder.
Certain other accounts didn’t have any support or back up and they had their address/kids schools etc posted. In this case the account says they’ve been accused of abuse. But they simply have not.

This is odd.

So, there is an instagrammer making patently untrue statements about MN and their users on a public platform. That is acceptable as she apparently has mental health problems (as stated by her - I am not alleging anything). However, it is not acceptable for MN users to discuss this generally or to specifically address these false allegations?

On what basis was that blanket policy decuded ?

I’m hoping that at some point someone will explain what happened to her via DM. It was only a few comments on here. but I don’t think it matters if it’s 1 or 100 to her anymore, she’s battered by the whole thing and I would be too really. That thread elsewhere was vicious.

Personal attacks certainly shouldn't be tolerated. However, if someone is using their channel with thousands of followers, to bring Mumsnet and Mumsnetters into disrepute then our voices should be heard too.

We should be able to highlight the inaccuracies that have been broadcast. Comments stating there was NO collective criticism of said Instagrammer's parenting should, for example, be able to stand. Deletions of this nature silences us without cause, and will be accepted as evidence by observers that bullying has taken place.

I would be really interested to hear MNHQ's stance. Discussion on the matter seems to be far less forthcoming than deletions.

I feel like I ought to offer a disclaimer here. I raised no personal attacks against any of the Instamums, nor was I engaged in the thread which is being hotly debated. I have however seen the Instagram stories and feel disappointed that Mumsnet is simply accepting unfounded accusations without allowing for a response. The reputation of Mumsnet is being tarnished unnecessarily and, as a consequence of this, prospective users will be discouraged from joining what is generally a supportive forum which offers a wealth of advice for people from all backgrounds. I also feel strongly that people in all areas of life should have a right to reply, particularly where (in my opinion) accusations are largely fabricated.

Nobody said a thing about anyone's parenting. The thing that wound everyone up was the fact the thread was being falsely accused of things it simply hadn't done.

I would have thought their own users should be the priority, not someone who cries “bullies” and threatens legal action.

Thinking logically - what's the corollary to this? What do MN do if we all find the deletions vastly upsetting/perilous to our mental health (who knows what underlying mental health issues we might have?). I personally find being falsely accused of calling someone a child abuser online very unpleasant. Does that mean our posts are re-instated?

There seems to be no logic to this new policy which was brought in with no notice whatsoever and just based on who feels the most upset

i don’t think she always reports these issues accurately.... But she’s struggling with people that don’t know her talking about her on forums. Which is what we are doing again now! And I think we should stop. But let’s also remember she’s coming from a well intentioned place. She’s trying to shine a light on social inequality amongst a sea of #ad and #gift accounts. That’s no bad thing.

This has also really pissed me off. I am all for deleting any personal attacks, and sometimes even "pile on" posts that don't add anything to a discussion and actually present MN in an unfavourable light to anyone reading, say, a thread that's been mentioned on instastories. But, yet again, I'm left feeling censored by the moderation of instagram related threads.

I appreciate things blow up suddenly but the silence from MN, not defending itself or, more importantly, allowing its users to defend themselves, is so irritating. It leaves me wondering whether I need to search out a better place to have these discussion

But she’s struggling with people that don’t know her talking about her on forums.

I wouldn't like that either, but in that case I probably wouldn't have a public Instagram account.

But she’s struggling with people that don’t know her talking about her on forums.

I’d suggest if you have mental health issues that are so bad you’re upset by any interaction of your public persona; the extent to which you are imagining that people accuse you of child abuse, it’s doing more harm than good and you should step away

Stop telling us to stop talking, please ive

This instagrammer has posted many times about not having her voice silenced. In fa ct, was that not the reason she decided to stay in jnstagram? T he right to free speech does not just apply to selected individuals who are allowed to use it to make false allegations about other people who don't have the right to defend themselves

She's lying. I like her account, have followed for ages, found her refreshing. But she's no better than the rest of them when it comes to whipping up a frenzy for the sake of... I'm not sure what.

I think this thread is pertinent though as this person isn’t the only IGer who has set people onto MN with inaccurate reporting of what’s going on and then MN becoming trigger happy leaving an incomplete thread and room for imaginative stories to be told to fill the holes. Which doesn’t close the issue and fans fires that weren’t even there in the first place. It’s not healthy for anyone.
I can’t see how a lot of the posts on the thread mentioned in the OP were breaching guidelines - and think that MN need to be clearer so rules of engagement are known and some self policing can be done by us all as well.

No I wouldn’t either @breadsticksandhummus

It’s such a useful tool for the message she wants to get across though.

It leaves me wondering whether I need to search out a better place to have these discussion

Yes - MNTrolls on Reddit. I may register and start a thread.

It’s such a useful tool for the message she wants to get across though.

Not when she's doing it in the way she is. I'm a working class WOC, and she's alienated me completely with this whole business I'm afraid.

Is that a thing @Gobbolinothewitchscat ? I may join you

I can understand that @breadsticksandhummus

It has turned into quite the shitstorm.

Yes - beauty. Just looked and there is a thread already

One person (who even had a username that was derogatory about the IGer in question) wrote some nasty things about her on the thread that was deleted last week or whenever it was. I imagine it was the same person who then apparently went and said the same things about her on GOMI. That poster was called out on the thread at the time, and obviously posters were reporting the nasty posts because those posts were deleted very quickly.

It has totally being exaggerated what happened and what was said about her.

Hi all
As we said in two posts on the thread, here and here, this is a short term response to a particular problem - we're trying to do the right thing by someone who's had a pretty rough time and, like most of us would if we were in that position, is feeling pretty raw having come in for some criticism over the last few days.

We think most MNers already understand that, if it's relentlessly repeated, valid critique reaches a point when it looks a lot like a pile-on. We're not banning any particular topics of discussion and as you know we work hard to let the conversation flow - but we felt that enough was more than enough there. We know that the vast majority of MNers don't want to see folk really upset by what they read about themselves on MN, particularly in these circumstances. Just to be clear, this isn't in response to any legal communications - we're just wanting to do the right thing here, and to get the balance right.

As we said on the thread 'while there's clearly a great deal of interest in this relatively new area of 'public' family life, we don't think that's a justification for a free-for-all on people who are themselves finding their way.' We're going to continue to keep a close eye on these threads and we'll be taking a three strikes approach (as we do informally in general) so please do make sure that you don't post anything you wouldn't be happy to say face to face.

Thanks all
MNHQ