Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

Gibberty

Just in case you're serious you might want to google, forced Feminisation, sissification, #girls like us and #transgirls. Kiwi farms also have a wealth of information, but be warned, there is nothing of the feminist to that site.

You will find numerous sites, including on Reddit, of men openly practising their AGP, very definitely in this country.

There are also two ongoing threads on this very site. Of women who are married to autogynephiles who identify as trans.

In fact googling trans widows, will give you more of the same information. As will the blog of Miranda Yardley, a transwoman.

When you have read up about it, you might have a greater understanding of why the trans umbrella is very worrying for women.

I don't know if anyone in the UK is AGP

Is it just an American affliction then?

“I have never read all that stuff in the DSM V before, thanks for posting. “

You are welcome. Some TRA’s are trying to get any mention of AGP and transvestic disorder removed from the DSM entirely, so that no one at all will know, that many late transitioning men are motivated by this fetish. I see the same tactic often being used on threads here.

I'm going to have to leave, I think. There's too much Basil Fawlty in my makeup: 'Don't mention the penis don't mention the penis... oh god I mentioned the penis!'

Thank you @KateMumsnet I'll read that thoroughly.
It's going to be hard work posting and remembering exactly what we are/are not allowed to say.

However, I will not refer to the murderer of Holly and Jessica as "she". Line drawn.

Ray Blanchard Phd

twitter.com/BlanchardPhD/status/1005481094769184768
He says:
I invented the term "autogynephile" as a neutral descriptor. I regret that some people are using "autogynephile," with no other qualification, as an insult. However, I don't think the solution is to ban the word, because nothing else conveys the same meaning.

kitties "I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it."

Thanks KateMumsnet - good clarification!

What about saying
'Male who indentify as a woman'
OR
'assigned male at birth
OR
'Male bodied person'

I think it's a question of context Wantacurry.

Thanks for clarifying those points KateMumsnet - it all sounds very fair to me. Bet MNQH are ready for home time and

"Male who identifies as trans" was, for me, a (forced) compromise. I know they're men, you know they're men, they know they're men, we all know they're men. We do, every one of us. If they weren't men this conversation wouldn't even be happening because a) when non-trans ppl get 'misgendered' we don't care enough to make a fuss about it 99.9% of the time and b) if they weren't men no one would give a shit about their feelings.

So "male who id's as trans" was a compromise. I use the biologically accurate "male" instead of "man" even though we all know they're men because they don't want to be called men, but there is no way to apply any feminist analysis to anything without being able to mention that some people are male and some people are female and that these groups have different bodies and different experiences and different positions in a male supremacist society.

I don't really care how they (or anyone really) identify themselves and I don't believe in trans ideology so the "who identifies as trans" was both a courtesy (acknowledging how they identify) and a way of recognising that there are broadly two groups of males - those who identify as trans and those who don't.

Using this sort of world language already ties me up in knots trying to have any discussion about women and feminism which involves MWIAT or that they want to be included in. I would rather say men, and if they really don't like it, then I'd rather say males. But even my (forced) compromise language is unacceptable?

It is not acceptable to force me to call them women, not even using an adjective like "trans" first. I am a woman, my daughters will be and are becoming women, my mother and grandmothers and aunts are or were all women. Our sisters and all of our female ancestors were women. That word has meaning to us and it is a colonising action to insist that women ourselves can no longer use it to find and understand the connections we have between us.

That is what it means to force us to call men "women". It means compelling us to shatter our understanding of who we are as female human beings, and demanding that we sever our connections to each other that we understand on the basis that we share being female.

I refuse to refer to a male as 'female' 'she/her' or even a 'woman'. To do so would be for me to tell a lie, because I don't believe it.

Being forced to do so is even worse, not only would I be lying but I would also be complicit in promoting transgender ideology by telling that lie.

I probably don't post here enough for it to be an issue, but I would willingly be banned before I would budged on pronouns and sex.

Some TRA’s are trying to get any mention of AGP and transvestic disorder removed from the DSM entirely, so that no one at all will know, that many late transitioning men are motivated by this fetish.

I can see why! It’s damning.

We are to call people with a fetish for menstruation and lactation “women”???

And when I say people I mean men.

This is insane.

@MNHQ It beggars belief that you state that it is likely that posts referring to Ian Huntley as he, as a male and as a man will be deleted and hence that such deletions will count towards the 3 required for a ban,

Are you sure that this is the hill that you want to die on?

Thank you kate.

This is the problem with people my age who have grown up with Monty Python and Blackadder-type irreverent humour. This new gender ideology and "thou shalt not offend me" - I just can't get on board. It's too ridiculous - the young woke generation are just to serious, and take themselves and their identity politics way too seriously.

Those Ted clips were deleted a while back weren't they? We can't even post a mainstream film clip on here... there is a serious case of loss of sense of humour now, and that makes me sad, as it was that which first drew me to Mumsnet.

Thanks katemumsnet

Can you have a think about how to avoid the kind of targeting and deletion of individuals as a ploy (by either side.) ? I think the twitter reporting has shown how easily individual posters can be targeted.

@GibbertyFlibbert

If you genuinely don't know anything about AGP, can I suggest you start with this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

Although I profoundly disagree with a lot of what you say, you do not strike me as someone who is an AGP apologist (believe me, they are incredibly recognisable, as they come here a lot to get a sexual kick) Rather you are an 'ideology embracer'. Presumably because of your personal relationships.

If you google the other things I said, particularly if you are a woman, it will make very difficult reading.

But the thread above is based on humanity. It's rather heartbreaking, but it does leave one with a profound understanding of how this condition not only affects the women who are forced to participate in it, but how it tears apart families.

I won't be forced to call males women. It is simply not true. I will also no longer be using 'women' in any sense in reference to biological males. I was willing to use the term transwoman and I would have used preferred pronouns out of courtesy.

But the fact that my language is being policed and my civility is being abused and used against me now means that I am no longer willing to extend this courtesy.

Naturally, I will use language that will avoid my posts being deleted. If it does become a linguistic obstacle course then feminist chat is going to become quite the entertainment

What happened to upholding the right to free speech MNHQ?

Men don't like women speaking :/

For some men, the only useful thing a woman can do with her mouth is to put a dick in it.

Insisting women call men "women" is putting a dick in our mouths. It might not be a nice way to phrase it, but that's what it amounts to.