MNHQ - where is the line in the sand on comments about trans people?

[yetanothertranswoman]

Or does anything go?

Do you have a line in the sand about comments people can make? How do you decide if comments go too far?

There are plenty of things that get deleted on MN about other groups. Plenty of controversial opinions. But trans people seem to be a group where almost anything goes.

How do you decide where the line is?

If you read any comments that you feel are ‘transphobic’, then report them. MNHQ are very good at deleting inappropriate comments.

All the comments I have ever reported (misgendering or people being particularly unkind about a specific person) have always been deleted.

MNHQ are very good at deleting inappropriate comments

Which is the point of the OP. What's their line?

Which is the point of the OP. What's their line? I’m just guessing from what I’ve seen in the past, but I’d say personal insults, mocking or abusive language. Simply discussing a topic does not make transphobic or offensive. If you’re in doubt read the rules, regarding posting on Mumsnet. If something upsets you, then report it, even if you’re not sure. I’ve reported things before, that haven’t been removed, but they’ve always told me why they’ve made their decision and I’m happy to go along with that.

Their are quite often comments used that I consider offensive to me, as an Irish person (having a Paddy), but I let it go, because I’d end up with repetitive strain. 😁 Also it ends up as an argument on wether it’s racist or not.

Here it is: ‘That said, we'll remove posts we consider to contain personal attacks, to break the law and/or to be obscene, racist, sexist, disablist, ageist, homophobic or transphobic, once they are brought to our attention. We will also delete any posts that we think are just seriously unpleasant‘

I imagine it's the same as the line in the sand for comments about everyone else.

As others have said, MN will delete abusive or mocking posts but does not seem to regard debate of the issues as a problem. Some people do, of course, in which case MN may not be the right place for them. But then nor, I suspect, is planet earth ....

I think if you quoted some of the things GG has said you would get banned...:)

We will also delete any posts that we think are just seriously unpleasant

I suppose what one person thinks is unpleasant differs from what another person think is unpleasant.

No issue with discussing the topics.

They seem quite happy to leave mis-gendering in place. Sometimes it's removed, but frequently it's allowed to stand. Admittedly they did ban one of the more egregious mis-genderers... but she's back. And it's soooooooo tiring to keep reporting it.

Hi YATW,

Thanks for getting in touch. We know the threads on trans people and trans issues are wide-ranging and so it can perhaps feel a bit difficult to know what is and isn't ok. It sounds like previous posters have given you a brief but pretty accurate rundown of how things are.

To be honest, it's probably much more simple than many people think. There's no line in the sand, certainly, other than the usual Talk Guidelines, which we think cover most eventualities and we moderate using them exactly as we would with any topic. So, while we are all for freedom of speech on every side of a debate and think it's important that people can share their thoughts on important topics, we will always delete reported posts that we feel are aggressive, are personal attacks or are designed to belittle, cause upset or inflame.

It is important to remember that bit about 'reported', though. We are post moderated so if a post isn't reported to us we probably won't have seen it, so do always hit the report button if you want us to take a look at something.

It's just a case of everyone being reasonable and civil really. We find the vast majority of Mumsnetters are happy to follow that guideline and so it's not really useful or necessary to have a prescriptive list of words and phrases or behaviours that are or aren't acceptable. We think, on any topic to be honest, that if people post with genuine intention and in a civil way, that's usually enough to keep things pleasant for everyone.

If you do feel that some posts are not made in this spirit or have been overlooked please do send us a report and we will always be happy to have a look at them.

Hope that answers your question.

@SpartacusAutisticus I think it's ableist to use words like moron, cretin and idiot, whereas others think they're fine.

I used "moronic" the other day and got pulled up on it. To me, all those words simply mean various types or degrees of idiotic or stupid person/actions. I believe in times past, they were nicknames or synonyms for medical conditions?

But I have never known them used in that way (see, I used 'idiotic' there but apparently it is not ok, judging by your OP?). I am not sure what words would be ok to use?

So does that mean the word usage has changed and you are not actually referring to a - bear with me while I google the meaning of moron as example -...clinically measured low IQ, you are just calling someone a bit of a duffer?

(not trying to be a gf, honestly don't know)

@SpartacusAutisticus but that's kind of my point - those terms are not generally "linked" with the past usage any more (ok, for some people they may be, I am mid 40s and I don't recall it). Hasn't it become a meaningless word amongst others? Isn't language full of words that had origins different to how we now use it?

If someone has just sat on a bench covered in wet paint signs, then they are an idiot, a duffer etc. What term would you use without reservation?

Sorry if I am not making sense.

I’ve reported loads of posts that have been deleted.
Mostly when people are being personal.

What do you think the line in the sand should be OP?

It's so straightforward to report posts that you feel break the guidelines, and MNHQ usually respond with their judgement either way.

If you report late at night/overnight/early morning then you won't get a quick response, if it's urgent then post in the Night Watch section and they can hide the post until it can be properly dealt with.

I really wish that everyone who posts and complains about transphobia reports every post they see that they think are transphobic.

IMO the problem with the trans discussion is that it is taking over every part of the site and yes, the trans posts are full of unpleasant references.

And postings are made completely disingenuously these days, designed for people to click on them before revealing that they’re trans bashing threads.

So someone will post “aibu to think that....” and only when you open it do you realise that it’s yet another anti trans thread.

And really, there don’t need to be hundreds and hundreds of these threads a week, one or two in feminism would suffice.

So could mn also have a policy of moving trans threads to feminism or creating a trans topic?

Sadly certain posters seem to have way more time to post nasty stuff than I do to read it, especially as I don't want to.
I'm glad MN did delete some particularly nasty posts trying to get hold of a trans person's birth certificate and posting extracts from supposedly-private online chat from 15 years earlier, along with comments about someone's looks. Sadly the posts had been around for a couple days by then.

Just report stuff that you think breaks the guidelines, like other people do. It's not hard, it takes a matter of seconds. As does closing a thread that doesn't interest you.

I disagree. The anti trans stance needs clamping down on. This would never be tolerated against a certain race or disability so shouldn’t be tolerated against trans either.

And it is giving mn a bad name.