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Original poster

A typical mumsnet debate???

132 replies

tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:10

Anyone recognise the shape of a thread (I am omitting details)

OP: I am doing something with my child that is not what planned to do, but it is something I have ended up doing because of circumstances. Now, I feel like a rubbish mother because it is not what other people say I ought to do. Please, is there anyone with experience who can tell me it's ok to be doing this?

Various posters: Yes, it's fine, I did this and my kids are wonderful and everything in my garden is rosy. Don't listen to people who tell you not to do this thing.

Other various posters: What you do is your own business, and of course you are not rubbish, and many people have been in that situation. But you should know that if you continue doing what you are doing, XYZ might happen. If you are fine about XYZ happening, then of course that's ok. But from your post, it appears as if XYZ is not what you wanted to happen.

Other other various posters: Bish Bash Bosh! The OP doesn't want to know all that! She wants fluffy kittens and lovely stuff! You are all very smug! Bish Bash Bosh! And anyway, XYZ didn't happen to me!

Other various posters again: But the OP is not the only one reading this - she needs to know about XYZ, and so do other people who come on here and lurk, now and in the future.

Other other other various posters: You are being horrible to the OP - she wants fluffy kittens and starlight, with added chocolate! And sugar sprinkles!

OP: some of you are horrible, and I didn't want this horrible argument....it's made me feel worse.

Other various posters again: oh dear....this is the internet and these things happen. Soz.

Other other other various posters : See what you have done with your decision to withhold the fluffyness?? Yah boo nasty smug people !

OP posts:
Wotz · 27/04/2007 12:27
Grin
MaloryTowers · 27/04/2007 12:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Cashncarry · 27/04/2007 12:32

oh - don't really understand what point we're debating re: debates [thick emoticon]

Are we saying we like them? From the gist of your description I think you fall into the category of anti-fluffy kittens! I'm a bit of a fluffy kitten myself but turn into a raging PMT monster if somebody winds me up!

TBH, I don't really think that debates on MN cause a real problem. It's not really down to the OP how the thread should run - she's basically standing in a crowded room shouting a question so you can't really be surprised if you don't hear what you want!

IME most debates on MN are civilised and highly intellectual which is to my liking. There's the occasional spat and very occasionally some personal attacks but it's not a prolific problem. Unless I'm missing something....

I'd really have to see the thread that prompted you to post this one in order to understand your point [nosy cow emoticon]

expatinscotland · 27/04/2007 12:33

Or cod comes on a posts:
Fraeks. Vom.

nailpolish · 27/04/2007 12:35

i'm off to play with my fluffy kittens and sprinkle them in chocolate

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:37

You'll have to look for it, cash

I agree - most debates are fine! And I agree I have missed out the irrelevancies and daftnesses

I totally agree about the 'shouting out in a room' thing, and the control bit....but when the OP doesn't see it that way (for whatever reason - lack of familiarity with talk boards, or a feeling of being vulnerable) it causes a slight problem.

OP posts:
AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:38

don't eat a whole one, naily. the Food Police have already got your card marked.

filthymindedvixen · 27/04/2007 12:38

tiktok - you missed the founcy follow on threads

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:39

I can do fluffy kittens, too, I really can......look here

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:40

filthy....do you think this might be a fluncy follow on thread????
Yikes!

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:40

or even flouncy...

OP posts:
hana · 27/04/2007 12:43

it's completely obvious what thread is referred to
life - for me - is too short to get involved in these sorts of things. I make decisions as to what I think is best for my children and our circumstances....why would I want to influence others? I don't have the inclination even if I had the energy to do so
I was bf for maybe 6 or 7 weeks? I am intelligent, rarely

AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:44

I think the OPs circs in that case may mean that despite having been on MN for three years she has never received anything other than (quite rightly) unconditional support, tiktok. she got plenty of support from everyone on that thread, imo, but only really thanked those who agreed with her that following her instincts was right. so i think that fio etc are correct that she wanted support, almost to the exclusion of information.

but i've got to say i didn't know much about bfing biology when dd was born, specifically because my own pregnancy losses led me to be in denial about Actually Having A Real Live Baby so i hadn't done much reading on the subject. that's what made me wnat to give the OP of that thread the scientific facts, because i know that despite being a bright button i'd put my head in the sand about bfing a bit and i couldn't rule out that she might have done exactly the same thing.

hana · 27/04/2007 12:46

not sure where rest of message went, but I'm rarely ill, no skin problems or other issues. when do these issues and detriments to health start? In your 40s? 50s?
Aren't there more important things to worry about?

Ladymuck · 27/04/2007 12:47

To my mind the problem comes when people decide that a post asking for support or a specific piece of advice is the right place to provide information in case someone else who is lurking (ie not the OP) needs it in future. If posters decide that this is the appropriate thing to do, then there is a risk every post asking for support on a particular issue turns into a semi-lecture or indeed ruck covering all points just in case someone might want some information at sometime in the future.

And I don't think that people search the archives for info as often as they once did - there are simply too many threads, so they post their own.

I guess ideally we could have some sort of heading from OPs as to whether they want info, support or debate, though often you can tell from the OP as to whch they are looking for.

AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:50

ladymuck, it's not the searching of the archives that's the problem, it's the google searching. on any given topic do do with parenting you get old MN threads coming up. that's how most people find MN in the first place, presumably, through google. certainly it's how i found this place.

wildwoman · 27/04/2007 12:51

Hi just read the thread I am guessing brought this about. Honestly don't think anyone meant to upset the OP but just looking at her first comments about the promlems she has had in the last few years I really don't understand what anyone hoped to achieve by offering her anything other than nice and fluffy support.I seriously doubt that telling her the ins and outs of mixed feeding would make her go back to exclusively breast feeding so why mention it? I know that lots of regular posters give fantastic advice and support to mums on here but I really feel that you should have stayed away from this particular thread.

AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 12:57

had the OP gone 'oh really? oh god i didn't know that? shit i don't want to stop bfing altogether...' i take it that you would think it had been the right thing to do? none of us is clairvoyant.

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 12:58

Mumsnet often comes up on google, true, Aitch.

I take your point about people nor searching the archives, LadyTH, though. You're prob right, there.

It would never work to ask people to categorise their wishes for support or information, though - and in this particular case, she was unclear, as many posters are. People will not hold back if they think they have some useful info.

If people start a debate saying (for example) 'I am looking for reassurance and support for my decision to use physical punishment on my six month old baby to get him to sleep through the night. I want to know if people find a slap with the hand is better than an implement like a stick. I am not interested in debating the choice to use this method of training'....then they are gonna get some information as well, aren't they?

I am delib. using an extreme example here, except there are people who believe in this form of child rearing, so it's not unrealistic.

OP posts:
fireflighty · 27/04/2007 12:58

Why would anyone want her to go back to just breastfeeding? What makes you think anyone would have that as an aim?

She said she was happy feeding the way she was but the way she is feeding is probably not sustainable - so she will find that the way she is feeding now will more likely than not not be the way she's feeding in a few weeks/months time. That's the point of giving her the information - so she doesn't have a nasty surprise down the line. She's not worried about that, so that's OK - still better to say than not.

And lurkers do matter, there are loads of threads I don't post on but get information from. If in that thread no one had said anything but "that'll be fine" without the warnings about future milk supply that were also there, then someone else could be reading that today and think oh that will be fine for me to do to and then be hacked off later when their milk supply drops, because as it happens they do that too.

Cashncarry · 27/04/2007 12:59

Right, found the thread in question - no thanks to you Tiktok

I actually think you made some excellent points which the OP, when challenged, did admit were helpful. I can see why she specifically stated that she'd rather not have a debate on her thread, which is why the debate should have been removed to another thread (I think you already made that point).

I think the problems arose when the language being used became pointed rather than the opinions. I always have a problem with this on MN because I would never speak to anyone like that in real life I don't think. However, having posted for a year now you do sometimes slip into the habit of being more familiar - told someone to grow up earlier on this week

I don't think I actually have a point in my ramble - but then, I can't really see a question to be answered in your OP

AitchTwoOh · 27/04/2007 13:03

agree, cashncarry, the word 'inferior' is too nippy for my liking, i'd never use it. knocked the shit out of me when i used to see it on here wrt ff. although it is always the elephant in the room, tbh.

Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 13:06

Correct, fire.

No one tried to 'make' her go back to excl bf, and no one actually gave her the ins and outs of how to do it - I could have done, but I waited to be asked, rather than shovel information at her.

All I (and others) said was that her choice to continue mixed feeding is not sustainable, and if she continues doing what she is doing, she will end up fully formula feeding. There was very little about the health impact of formula, either partial or full.

The fluffy kitten brigade did not want anything other than full-on fluffies....it may have made her feel better now, but as Aitch said, what if she would have been very upset to find (sooner rather than later) she had no breastmilk? I can't tell you the number of people who do not know this, and who don't have the first idea that mix feeding can work, but only if you do it in a certain way.

She was very vulnerable - she was even upset at the term 'OP' so clearly things were very raw for her, and I am sad about that. But it was the right thing to give info.

OP posts:
Original poster
tiktok · 27/04/2007 13:08

Yep - 'inferior' is loaded and dangerous. I don't use it, myself.

OP posts:
lulumama · 27/04/2007 13:10

think tik tok and other breast feeding experts would be doing a disservice to themselves and their profession by posting uninformative, or even incorrect advice...just for the sake of kindness.

being kind is giving the truth, even when it is not what someone wants to hear, as the long run matters as much as the immediate with breast feeding

we should all be on our knees thanking tik tok for the hours she spends giving her advice and support..taking care to be accurate, informative and straightforward.....IMHO