How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

[Ghostofasmile]

MNHQ themselves have displayed ignorance (at best) over the last few months and prejudice / discrimination at worst when dealing with certain situations.
For example Justine, the sites owner herself over the last few days has made some very ignorant and damaging comments about diabetes.
We have seen the same with many times with Racism too as well as low level disablism.

Unless you are white, middle class and able bodied HQ isn't a nice place to be.

Post here if you would like this to take place. HQ need training and they need it fast.

The problem I have with disability groups offering advice is that there is an enormous range of opinions. For example, the Deaf community do not all consider themselves as having a disability, neither do some people on the Autistic Spectrum. Mental health adult advocacy groups, for example, work very differently to groups for parents of children with physical disabilities.

prawn This is not a tread about trans issues. God knows there are a gazillion of them already. boring
Why don't you post on one of them, or start your own.

I think if any group had an issue with MN moderation etc they would be very welcome to contact MNHQ for a discussion. I can't see some drawbridge being pulled up and a truculent refusal to take on board alternative views.
Whether that would lead to a nice shiny certificate to be wafted in front of posters who seem to like that sort of thing is another matter.

No, i don't see kids with gender dysphoria as being Disabled, they do not become 'less abled' because they happen to wish they were the opposite biological sex.

If they suffer with mental health issues, then that is a different story, and in those cases, they are equally protected by the Equality act, but only by way of having a recognisable, diagnosed illness that impacts, long term on their ability to function.

However, i think a lot of Trans people would object if i labelled them as Sick/Ill/Disabled simply because they were Trans.

I think Prawn has a valid point in the context of this thread, whether or not trans issues are your thing tbh. They allow a lot of discussion about trans and many other subjects that are slapped down elsewhere on the internet. They don't pander to them as shouts loudest.

Surely trans issues come under the 'diversity' umbrella? The OP was asking MNHQ for staff to do diversity training so not necessarily just about disabled people.

A great deal of diversity training covers trans issues. The subject is also being referenced in many other types of corporate and public sector training if the myriad of programmes I see every day is an indication.

I'm not sure it's sensible or even in the spirit of inclusion to state certain topics are worthy of diversity training debate and other viewpoints are 'boring.'

I can see how there could be a temporary delay to respond when a post is reported and falls into that grey area of being offensive to some but completely acceptable to others.
But there have been some utter fucking corkers of obvious disabilism left to stand lately for hours, days or even indefinitely, under the guise of 'educating' the poster.

X-post Nerr

That would be interesting - MNHQ do Diversity Training to learn about tackling disablism "correctly", and in the process discover that the discussions on Trans issues are crossing the line as much (if not more) and have to shut those down, removing one of the few places women have left to discuss these things. All in the name of "Diversity and Inclusion".

But they would have a Certificamut!

Well Alice the real crux of the matter is that very few people agree on what is Disablist,- least of all disabled people themselves.

In fact there have been many instances of disabled people being shouted down because they fail to agree with a few posters who seem to have appointed themselves spokespeople for every disabled person on Mumsnet.
A recent example of this was the thread about a poster asking advice about moving beside a hostel for young people with behavioural difficulties.

The overwhelming majority of posters advised her not to for all sorts of reasons, including those who had similar previous exoerience of living close to similar set ups.
Also, tellingly posters who had worked in those settings said they would not want to live so close.

Cue the usual cohort of posters coming on to the thread shouting Disabilsm, and totally derailing the thread, which of course was always their intention.

This is just one recent example, but there are many more..

That would be interesting - MNHQ do Diversity Training to learn about tackling disablism "correctly", and in the process discover that the discussions on Trans issues are crossing the line as much (if not more) and have to shut those down, removing one of the few places women have left to discuss these things. All in the name of "Diversity and Inclusion".

Right. So by that argument, all prejudice can be tolerated on MN, just so it doesn't halt the endless, tedious trans threads.

And no, this thread is not about trans issues and for someone to come on here, give the merest shoulder shrug at disabilism and then go on at length about their pet topic, is at least, incredibly rude and dismissive.

Prawn made what, 2 posts? I think you are being unfair, IPity.

See that's what is strange.
I've repeatedly said that I don't speak for all disabled people. I'm pretty sure Dixie and others don't either.

We do present a different view that deserves to be heard. Those that disagree are heard all the time.

Yet people trying to silence these posters say that we do.

I know I'm not the only one who has the views I do, I don't speak for all disabled people, some share the majority view and are well supported and some share my views so what's the problem with a different view being given?

No I read that thread. Nobody was saying they didn't want to live next door to a 3 y/o with SN. Some people were saying they didn't want to live next door to a hostel for homeless 16-24 y/o with behavioural issues.

Apparently this wasn't OK because some of the young people might have had disabilities.

It's upsetting when someone says they work with children with disabilities and wouldn't want to live next door to them. Because it perpetuates the belief that disability is a bad thing and disabled people are undesirables and to think people with those views are working with your children is deeply worrying.

Would you like to leave your children with someone who has stated that they don't want to spend time with people like them?

That post was made by someone who works with children who have SN on thread and was what a lot of people objected to.

I didn't even post on the thread until after that post. Let alone name call or anything like it.

I may be abrupt and forthright when faced with the umpteenth goady post in a weekend but I've had very few deletions for anything other than quoting deleted posts.

As usual DN, you are massively projecting. Everything isin't about you and your cirmcumstamces. We all have our own shit to deal with.

The fact is the overwhelming majority of posters on that thread did not want to live in close proximity to young adults with behavioural problems.

you cannot force people to think the way you want them to. . You are wasting your time and energy.

We all have our own shit to deal with.

Yes we certainly do.

The problem I have with disability groups offering advice is that there is an enormous range of opinions. For example, the Deaf community do not all consider themselves as having a disability, neither do some people on the Autistic Spectrum. Mental health adult advocacy groups, for example, work very differently to groups for parents of children with physical disabilities.

That's a very interesting point. I think you would be throwing out the baby with the bath water for sure if you're suggesting that all voices for disabled people are silenced because they're not a monologue. It's a complex issue with many different presentations. It would be worrying if they all said the same thing. However there are large areas of overlap in terms of how to approach disability and adjustment (and what bodies like the equality commission expect to see) that would be helpful. Even the differences in how to treat disability would be helpful and necessary for a business with many disabled clients to know about.

I genuinely don't understand why people think they have a sense of ownership over it (to go as far as direct what training they think staff should get) yet somehow also hate it and are angered by it. Yes there are things that I object to on here but I would never think to demand this or that from MNHQ. I can delete my account at any time. It would have no impact for MN at all.

With respect, that is disablist. It's fine not to choose a product because you don't like it. It's not fine to feel unable to participate because you are excluded, can't access it or because there is content that could reasonably be found offensive to your situation. Unfortunately, many people with disabilities would be isolated and deprived if they 'just' left every time they found something inaccessible or unworkable in some other way as a consequence of their disabilities. It's also not Allowed because of various pledges the UK has made about how people with disabilities are to be treated in our society. I did try to explain this earlier but complaints were made - complex, informative points not being as pithy as insults