How about a campaign where the users get MNHQ staff to take diversity training?

[Ghostofasmile]

MNHQ themselves have displayed ignorance (at best) over the last few months and prejudice / discrimination at worst when dealing with certain situations.
For example Justine, the sites owner herself over the last few days has made some very ignorant and damaging comments about diabetes.
We have seen the same with many times with Racism too as well as low level disablism.

Unless you are white, middle class and able bodied HQ isn't a nice place to be.

Post here if you would like this to take place. HQ need training and they need it fast.

slender - Can I just ask you a question personally please?

You said that it should not be up to an individual employee to raise issues and it's better for a neutral professional to come in to assess key points etc... but many disabled people say that their disability is personal to them, that no blanket assumptions should be made, no two people are affected the same and you should ask them personally what would help.

How is anyone meant to get anything right without offending anyone ever? How can Poster A insist that Poster B's comment is disablist and warrants deletion when Poster C thinks it isn't, and all 3 might be affected by the same condition? Your comments that a disabled person needs someone neutral to speak for them could be seen as disablist. Is it?

Personal example. I have epilepsy. I have been told that the phrase "brainstorming" is (to use a word I have only ever seen on MN) disablist and offensive to people with epilepsy. I am more offended by someone telling me personally what I should find offensive than I am by what I consider to be an innocuous word. Just because I have epilepsy doesn't mean I can't think for myself or have an opinion on something. I don't need looking after. I find their attitude far more "disablist".

So while I wouldn't use an expression to someone who said to me "I don't like that phrase it upsets me." I would not call for it to be banned and deleted iyswim.

Worra, you have endless patience... as well as being an oracle.

There's a lot of verbal diarrhoea on this thread.

slender here is some basic teaching for you around humility and basic decency:

When you fuck up you do say "I fucked up, I am sorry"

You don't launch a wall of words basically blaming everyone else for misunderstanding you

People skills 101

Christ, you can't win with some people. HQ don't delete, then they get it in the neck. They do deleted and they still get it in the neck. It seems that people only want things deleted when it suits their own agenda.

I'm distracted, my cat has just had kittens.

No, I don't think people with disabilities need someone to speak for them. Didn't say they did. Nor do I think that some words should necessarily be banned because someone somewhere finds it offensive.

But no, in answer to your 'personal question', I don't think the existence of policies to facilitate inclusion or professionals who look at how they may be most helpfully applied is disablist in and of itself. I'm sure that there would be a way that support could be made available that would be unhelpful, patronising and disablist. But I have never thought that the possibility that something could be done badly says anything about its value when done well

The problem with these threads is that any point the op's have at the start get twisted and the end result is so far removed from anything helpful that it bares (or is it bears?) no relation to the actual problems the site actually has.

And most of them do start out with a valid point, but they always end up as a jumbled mess.

AF some basic decency would involve not labeling coherent and relevant engagement a wall of words because it doesn't interest you. If you would like to pontificate you should contribute first.

You clearly didn't read the part where I did indeed give relevant apology but that doesn't surprise me at all.

You're also trying rather obviously to make the thread about something other than the thread topic.

user1478350730 FFS get a proper name!

Is this better?

I'm sure plenty of men thought women wanted the vote just to be difficult and get at them too navy.

You may not agree that there is discrimination but you're in no position to decide how genuine people like myself are.

Hello

After discussion here, we're deleting the comments which refer to individual employee/s at MNHQ.

On balance we feel that the expression in question was used in good faith to critique a course of action, rather than to demean an individual. Nevertheless, it is very likely to be upsetting at an individual level, and we're deleting the post on that basis. We're also deleting related responses.

Thanks for your reports, folks.

Amy my two at 20:19:27 & 20:20:10 refrence posts which refrence said employee, it might be worth deleting those two too.

Thank you AmyG for very eloquently explaining why it was uncomfortable to read. I think it does go a long way why you explain your decisions and it's helpful that you clarified. :)

slender - Firstly, thank you for responding.

Your response seems to change what was in your original post though. Originally you seemed to be saying that employing people with disabilities isn't good enough and that policies & training must exist instead because individual people shouldn't have to explain what will help. That is what I thought disablist, not that the policies and training exist.

But good luck with your kittens. Pop over to The Litter Tray and post some photos

What some posters have said is that they aren't being deleted quickly enough. That's not worthy of a thread, that is something that should be reported directly to MNHQ as they've asked us to do.

There have been so many threads on MNHQ moderation and if MN should have 24 moderation. There has usually been a broad range of opinions, but no one has ever said "How dare you have this conversation!", never and I find it telling that people are having this response with regards to disabilism.

As a long term poster, I have noticed a rise in bigotry across MN, particularly with regards to disabilism and racism and I think this bigotry may well spread into areas more people notice.

Then we'll probably see more threads like this, but I doubt they'll be met with as much hostility.

That's perfectly understandable, AmyGMumsnet.

milk Thank you - there are nine of them!

I feel the option for another supportive voice should be there, but not in such a way as to overrule the disabled person's voice. Does that make sense and seem consistent?

What it seems to boil down to mostly is someone who has the knowledge at the fingertips confirming adjustments that would be considered reasonable and necessary, rather than the employee or customer having to do so awkwardly. There should be a lot more to it of course.

I'm not on any of the boards where disablism may or may not occur. My experience of MN is that HQ is usually considered and civilized. I'm sorry to hear that some MNetters aren't happy with how the site's run. I might hang out on relevant threads and see what I see.

The area I am familiar with is Feminist discussions and here I think MNHQ excels. Trans rights activists are trying to silence women all over the internet, and also in person, with feminist icons being no platformed and conferences, like the recent NSPCC debate on trans children, being cancelled. I myself have been banned from a number of supposedly feminist sites for the unforgivable crime of noticing that human beings can't change sex.

Women who dissent from the TRA agenda have very few spaces in which we can debate and record the damage being done to our interests. Changes in criteria for female athletes, males being allowed in female-only spaces, including rapists insisting they must be housed in a women's prison. The issues are many and they matter. The issue of trans children is probably the most important.

By allowing free debate MNHQ is sticking its head above the parapet. The recent Mermaids controversy might have scared a lesser group, but HQ stands firm. Parents of trans kids are telling us that MN is one of the only places they can explore their doubts. Several ex members of Mermaids have posted on MN about how the charity promotes quick and unquestioning transition. It's a dangerous ideology.

I have much admiration for MNHQ. They let women speak out on an issue most forums delete without debate. I have hope that the regressive nature of trans ideology is starting to creep through. Trans issues are spreading beyond the Feminist boards. Every week brings a new story, and more women are becoming aware of the issues. Hurray for MNHQ I say.

Prawn - really?
There aren't enough threads on MN to talk about the evils of trans people, so you thought you would bring it to this one too?

"Disabilism is bad (one sentence),but LET ME TALK ALL ABOUT MY BIG ISSUE (four big paragraphs)!!!!!".