Disablism

[BishopBrennansArse]

Shiny new thread.

Hopefully won't get derailed.

I've just googled it, what the actual fuck

Oh goodness, just googled and its really a promoted cure for Autism hyped thing. Ment to administer a form of bleach orally too - its implied it has lead to non UK deaths. Cure by death!

I often don't bother to post when a bunch fight looms.

but (making a probably foolish exception) FWIW I don't find most of the threads labelled here as disablist. I've been in the position of being the colleague who quite decidely wasn't pulling her weight because I was caring. It was a problem and the strain on my colleagues must have been hard. Does it mean they can't or shouldn't discuss the problem?

Yes a whole society improvement on provision would do wonders for many of these problems. But realistically it isn't going to happen anytime soon so most people will end up discussing problems and solutions on an individual basis (eg no one wouldn't buy the house, I ended up quitting work to care)

I often think the same with some of the other threads meantime here.

We need movers and shakers to move and shake. but I think sometimes when you become accustomed to fighting because you damn well need to be, you can end up fighting the wrong people and losing track of what is and isnt moderate language.

Especially if it is something you feel strongly about

That's great if that's your take on it and that works for you.

And it sounds very appeasing.

However that doesn't work for others. Maybe they accept some impacts are unavoidable.

If everyone was an appeaser, progress would never happen.

Not kicking up a fuss doesn't mean there isn't a problem. It might make for a quieter life but not necessarily an easier one.

MiscellaneousAssortment Fri 14-Oct-16 20:16:01

I have a problem with the societal attitude towards disability in general, as it is reflected in its most uncensored manifestation on MN.

This.

I have experienced life as a non disabled, non different normal person. And I now experience life as a not normal, not 'one of us' disabled person.

I have intimate insight into the dramatic drop in value you are judged to have.

It's crucifyingly painful, to know that I am now judged as valueless. And that all those nasty little assumptions and stereotypes lurking in the back of people's brains, well, they now have a direct effect on whether my life continues, whether they will 'allow' me to work, whether they will 'allow' me to go outside my home. Whether I'm allowed to be a proper person, like they are.

It's hideous and I can't dwell on it too much because it breaks my soul.

So many of the shit I have to go through, that other disabled people have to go through on a daily basis... It's not caused by my physical illness and pain, it's caused by the insidious and widespread attitudes and exclusion by other people. By society.

And that's what Mumsnet doesn't understand. They think disablism is just the obvious stuff. The guys in the van who wind down their window to shout about them 'paying' for me and I'm a waste of space (btw I'm pretty sure I pay more tax than them, but I look disabled, which equals drain on society). But that stuff is easier to deal with than the stuff that sounds superficially ok on the surface, but is based on a disablist stereotypes that the person doesn't even realise they have.

It's the people who make decisions for me, like, 'you can't do X', or who cannot compute that I am a mother and a person, not a dependent lump of fat that needs moving around like a piece of furniture, or that needs organising, like I'm the child.

Or out of pity, like 'oh, you shouldny be working if you're that ill, why don't you go back home to your family' (OK from a friend, not so great from an employer!)

Or fuelled by hidden needs of their own, like, it's more convenient or comfortable for them if I am not included.

It's the people who sound nice, but their words are based on something that needs challenging... this is what Mumsnet can't quite grasp at the moment.

MiscellaneousAssortment Sat 15-Oct-16 19:33:08

It's so embedded into our society it's hard to see it from within society.

It's when you're kicked out, or have another perspective that allows you to see beyond the cultural norms, rules and implicit beliefs.

On an individual level it's hard to confront the underlying assumptions that you yourself carry. It's hard to change people's minds when those people would rather bury all those assumptions as it would create a conflict in their own sense of self.

Who would want to realise that their own underlying, unvoiced and unquestioned beliefs meant they were in fact, against equality, against the legislation that makes disabled people equal to non disabled people?

No one wants to be 'that person', it really fucks with your sense of pride and self. You believe in your own kindness, liberality, equality for all, or the modernity of your values. Having some mouthy disabled bitch come along and reveal that maybe you're not quite as kind, liberal or modern as you thought you were.

Easier to bash that disabled person down than challenge and develop your own unquestioned assumptions.

Add to that the general fear of doing and saying the wrong thing in front of an actual real life disabled person, or the squeamishness of people who don't know how to deal with the differences... And, you don't exactly get a situation where mutual understanding, learning and empathy flow.

And that's why disablism is rife throughout our culture.

maybe it is.

But I have to say life is pretty easier for now. Mostly because the stinks I have very successfully kicked up are reaping their benefits currently. They have also reaped some pretty awesome benefits (often unanticipated) to those around DS as well. I have no doubt there are battles to come.

Everyone has there own measure of whether a battle is worth fighting. Maybe that is appeasement. I call it picking your battles and keeping your powder dry for the battles that are genuinely worth it.

Truly excellent posts Switzerland

Remember, you must also be grateful If you at allowed, you must be a saint, you must not complain, you must not go looking for trouble and above all don't make others anxious or uncomfortable about disability

And you'll be fine

Seriously though, best of luck.

Everyone has there own measure of whether a battle is worth fighting. Maybe that is appeasement. I call it picking your battles and keeping your powder dry for the battles that are genuinely worth it
Fwiw I agree with you Toffee

All lifted from the deleted thread Candy, and here is another classic from you:

CandyMcJingles Sun 16-Oct-16 19:51:40

Whilst I am musing in this, it's occurred to me that it's funny that people think I might be easily offended.

Having a disability can make a person extremely resilient.

What it also can do is finely hone your bullshitometer.

I'm not offended necessarily by some posts. I just smell the bullshit, and being aresilient hardy type, am ok with calling Bullshit! Bullshit! Look over here, there's a big pile of steaming bullshit!

I chose to do it because the alternative is worse.

It doesn't always make one popular though, being the one who draws attention to the unpleasant stuff.

But if I don't i'll drown in the stuff because it's everywhere, I need the bullshit to be cleaned away so i can carry on.

I'm lucky I can be vocal. Not everyone can and not everyone gets the opportunity to be listened to. They get drowned out by other voices and slowly get swallowed up by inaccessibility and isolation,

So it's not that I'm offended , or over sensitive, or a troublemaker, or seeing fault where there is none.

I'm just calling you out in it. And I'm ok with that :D

And if don't understand that it's because YHGAFC (you haven't got a fucking clue)

I dont think its appeasement.

Every day life is much more different than on a forum. I have no issue in walking away from something on here if something in my RL requires my fight and attention.

DS and his schooling right now are a big battle, it fills my day, and as we approach half term i'm fucking exhausted from what feels like a constant battle of wills to make sure the school are providing for him and supporting him and following his EHCP.

I would love to educate the world, but sometimes i need to accept i just need to educate the people in DS's

You are right Maddy, you have to pick your battles.
A very was ninja educated me about spoon theory.
It's worth a look up.

Ah Switzerland! I'm getting nostalgic now.

i know the spoon theory well :) I've found it translates very well into my own Autism and ability to be sociable with RL people.

I'm very introverted, and DS is full on, his care uses up most of my spoons, and the degenerative disc disease i have uses up whats left!

Totally agree with everything you said Maddy
I have no issue in walking away from something on here if something in my RL

Only I would add I have no problem walking away from something on here simply because it was upsetting. It is afterall just an anonymous Internet forum. For me your never going to have enough of an impact for the fight to be at much personal cost to myself

Just be challenging for better provision you are doing more. By actively ensuring you get better provision you are helping to shape ideas of what better provision looks like. There are lots of very good reasons people don't do it and the personal cost is high. But the benefits can be huge.

If all that's appeasement I'm all for it.

Maddy I think that's why it's so upsetting when threads get deleted. It costs a lot to keep trying to change things for the better and then it's all for nothing.

12 hours, still no deletion on post. So they delete our threads with lightning speed, but other things stand.

Again, no change then.

MNHQ - repeatedly when we try to "educate" or stand up to people using disabilist terms, we're criticised and attacked and told we're being aggressive. Still happening, even on that thread. Where are you?! Why do you let it continue??

Slowest dereg ever!

Katemumnet, when you say you get MNetters saying they feel anxious about paying about disability (and others have come on here and said anxious is too strong a word), and you have to look after that group, this is what you are doing:

You have two groups.

Group 1: not disadvantaged. Not vulnerable not protected by law. Feel uncomfortable on topics around disability.

Group 2: disadvantaged. Vulnerable. Protected by law. Feel hurt, damaged, frustrated and insulted by indirect and covert disablism.

And you are prioritising group 1

And the law says you should prioritise and protect group 2.

Not only are you failing to protect group 2, you are ascribe my condoning group 1 and throwing group 2 under the bus.

This is why, despite living being an MNetter I cannot stay and Condone you,

"yea, I could name several children the school would like to be rid of but its one of these inclusive places that try to help everyone, including the really bad ones. If only I could have afforded better."

I posted this, so now am waiting for the attack to begin again. My bets? I'll be called aggressive, told I'm attempting to derail, or they'll once again demand "what should I have done? huh? huh?" which is standard as well. Last time they asked me that, I said they could be more open minded and realise that they actually don't know if a child has a disability. Yeah, that didn't make any difference. But this that I posted is absolutely true - this happens ALL the TIME.

"That doesn't change the fact that you've already stated you were basing your assumption on whether or not he had a hidden disability on simply what you've seen, which is simply not fact. So why the need to point that out - that "As far as I know this boy has no hidden disabilities before anyone suggests he has."

It's just another way of heading off anyone that might find fault with the judgement that this boy is just badly behaved. It's done over and over on MN. It's just another way of shutting down those that might point out, quite rightly, that actually you don't know."

BishopBrennansArse

It's getting increasingly difficult to be on here as a disabled person with a disabled child.

In all of MNHQ's recent posts if you changed the words relating to disablism to any of the other 'isms' its would be gobsmackingly obvious they are throwing vulnerable people 'under the bus'.

I particularly loved Rebecca's 'not everything is about those with a disability' (paraphrased)

I come on here for support, as so many others who lives with disability.

But it seems MN are more profit focused than ever and have to appease the lowest common denominator to suck more people on.

There are some golden parts but this site has essentially turned into a salacious gossip rag.

And what's more fun to gossip about that scrounger benefit claimants (where the posts always 'exclude' those who are disabled BUT invariably end up with posts and anecdotes that show that some of us 'put it on a bit')

OR allowing disablisy posts to stand up because the majority agree with the statement (some fucking corkers on the NIMBY thread)

I'm holding off deregging for a couple of days to see if there is a decent reply but I'm very close to following Candy and Fanjo and probably countless others that have just slipped away quietly or found it too hard to lurk anymore.

You seem to want to keep a fair and squeaky public image MN. I hope if you continue down this route it all blows up in your face. My mind boggles at the cognitive dissonance needed to take the policy line you have AND run the 'this is my child' -that you don't want to live next to you and other campaigns.

Yep I've reported that post.
I'm also posting on the thread in a non abrupt, aggressive manner so we will see what happens... i'm being ignored at the moment.

Mn are entirely profit focused now. I flounced when they advertised McDonalds, not because I sneer at McDonalds, I actually love it! It was just that it was the point at which mn demonstrated how straight, how mainstream, how money focused they are. Before then, there was at least a tone of ethical revenue, albeit a veneer. Not sure I'm expressing this correctly, but for me, that was the moment that mn said "fuck it, we're here to make money above all else."which is fine if you are a business. But mn was once more than that. It's been a steady slide since then as the reactionary daily mail esque posters increased.

Smartle you are right which is why I think peoples efforts might be better spent contacting charities and companies who think mn are suitable advocates to represent carers and those with disabilities. It's clear they are not.