Why is Mumsnet insisting that I log in?

[CrispEater]

I spend quite a lot of time browsing Mumsnet on my Samsung tablet, not logged in. I rarely post anything but if I do, I do that on my PC because I can type quicker on a proper keyboard.
Just now I was in Mumsnet on the tablet and kept getting a pop-up that insists I should either log in or join. As far as I can see, there is no way of getting rid of this pop-up except by logging in or joining or giving up on Mumsnet. It looks very genuine to me.
I really can't be bothered to keep logging in when I only want to browse and I hate being forced into doing something I'd rather not do.
Is there some reason why Mumsnet now wants everyone logged in all the time? Or have I missed something?

Cookies, cache, browsing all deleted. Settings now set to delete all every day. Ghostery installed.

You are doing well pissing people off MN

Setting a limit at 10 pages before forcing log in totally changes the nature of the site.

As someone said earlier it damages the brand.

I currently see mumsnet as a massive source of information and support and I'm happy to support your advertising to ensure this is available to people.

If you force people to log in it makes me think you're moving away from your original aim of helping parents (while making money) and now care more about the money than the parents.

The only reason I can see for this is so that MNHQ can capture and record the IP Address/Hardware ID of every device a user has and associate it with the MN User name(s) and then those with a single MNHQ User ID on MN database. This is why we are being asked to log in once from every device. Afterwards, even if you are browsing without logging in, MN will be able to see who you are, because they can always see the IP address/ID and have now associated each address with a username.

And even if you are not logged in afterwards, MN can still access your cookies (unless you have s cookie blocker) so they will be able to use them, from all devices collectively, as a single identified user.

Can any techs out there confirm this?

I think it IS a massive phishing exercise. I think it is a very underhand way of obtaining your users' data by stealth MNHQ. Shame on you

MNHQ Thank you for listening and changing it back (not getting the pop up on my phone any more (and I haven't / and won't log in on my phone).

I wonder why you didn't just ask a question posted at the top of every topic, as you do with other issues you think of changing? That way we could have responded in a more rational manner, rather than lots of frustration and suspicion.

Hi all,
I've posted a response on another thread which I think answers some questions here.

user1471601572 - you've got the start of it. The key thing these kind of tracking and datamining techniques are interested in is your behaviour, what sites you visit, what threads you visit in mumsnet's case, so that they can then sell those details to advertisers. Advertisers can then target you more effectively. It's very lucrative information. A lot depends on how much information you give out, but when we're all being tracked all the time one hell of a lot can be recorded about you. As Justine says it is very common on websites. Be warned, Facebook (which I loathe with a passion) can track you across sites like Mumsnet even if you don't have an account with them. If you do they'll likely know all about your favourite things.

If you're picking up on my posts, MumsnetHQ, what do you think of the Soma fm crowdfunding model as an alternative then? I want a mumsnet biscuit mug!

Thanks Justine.

I would like to respond to one of the points on that - you mentioned that most social media requires people to log in, but I don't really see MN as being the same as a heavily profile based social media site like fb. The forum format is different and feels designed to be read casually as well as interacted with.

I feel like requiring log in to post and access more features of the site, like watching threads, using bookmarks and highlights, customise page length and other useful features is a good way to incentivise logging in without forcing people. Perhaps instead of a pop up, a banner could be visible on non-logged-in members' pages explaining the benefits of joining so that people can choose if they want to sign in or not.

WRT advertising, one of the most popular adblockers has a Whitelist function now where non obtrusive ads can be allowed through. Me and many other adblock users don't object to advertising as such (indeed, I had MN manually whitelisted for ages), it's just intrusive, misleading and harmful ads which are the problem. Unfortunately MN's ads have been slipping increasingly in this direction since the start of the use of ad choices.

Bungo

Can you explain re Facebook tracking when not a member.

I have a real problem with smartphone being associated with my PC.

It's really irritating having to log in if you just want to look quickly at a few posts on an i-pad. And also for people at work that don't want to log in but might want to browse the site. I don't want to be targetted by advertisers. It's bad enough having them phoning up with their inane solar panels or that you're in for some government grant. No thanks. Sorry for rant. I think fair enough to have to log in to post or even use search. But just to read the posts I don't see why you have to.

@user1471601572

The only reason I can see for this is so that MNHQ can capture and record the IP Address/Hardware ID of every device a user has and associate it with the MN User name(s) and then those with a single MNHQ User ID on MN database. This is why we are being asked to log in once from every device. Afterwards, even if you are browsing without logging in, MN will be able to see who you are, because they can always see the IP address/ID and have now associated each address with a username.

And even if you are not logged in afterwards, MN can still access your cookies (unless you have s cookie blocker) so they will be able to use them, from all devices collectively, as a single identified user.

Can any techs out there confirm this?

I think it IS a massive phishing exercise. I think it is a very underhand way of obtaining your users' data by stealth MNHQ. Shame on you

As posted on the other thread...

It's worth clarifying a few points I think:

1. We do not track our users' browsing history outside of Mumsnet. Unlike Facebook, Amazon, Google etc where every site you visit that has a Facebook button on it is most likely tracking your browsing, Mumsnet does not do this, not even on websites that display our bloggers' badges and widgets. We are only tracking the pages you visit on Mumsnet.

1. Some of the the ad service providers that we use (Google ads) may be looking at your browsing on other websites that also use their technology, but they have no access to personal information that provide when you register. Mumsnet does not give them your email address, name or even your Mumsnet username.

1. We only “link” you across your PC and smartphone if you login to Mumsnet. That gives you access to your preferences, watch list, private messages etc and it allows us to personalise the content based on your profile.

Thanks Justine
I appreciate your response.

I guess this recent MN test has for me brought together a number of privacy concerns, most of which are not explicitly re MN. I think I have to do a personal review of the security of my privacy and take appropriate steps. I do believe most of us are sleepwalking (or sleepbrowsing) into giving away highly personal data with no awareness of future risks or implications. It's hard to keep up with the technology. I may start a general technology / privacy protection thread to discuss

Justine
Re. your point 3) This is the reason that I was objecting to forced log in.

The 'workaround that was proposed by MN was that users needed to log into each device once, then further log ins would not be required. By logging in, even once, the PC and smartphone/other devices would be linked on your servers

I don't want my smartphone and PC to be linked. I doubt that most people would realise that this is being done.

Again, I realise that MN is not alone in this, but given the nature of MN, I think users should be made aware of taking such an action.

Agreed user.

3. We only “link” you across your PC and smartphone if you login to Mumsnet. That gives you access to your preferences, watch list, private messages etc and it allows us to personalise the content based on your profile.

Surely this can then be linked to ip or email address by google who can add all threads viewed, discussions had to every other bit of data being collated?

I do not log into fb or any of the other sharing site on my phone because the security is less than on my pc, I am glad to see from this thread that this is not unusual. I too will review all web usage and probably do false reg details for mn from now on. You had a great bonus for those of us concerned about anonymity by allowing name change function, this forced tracking stuff is not nice if inevitable but removes you as the last bastion of online sanity in my book.

@Vipermisnomer

Agreed user.

3. We only “link” you across your PC and smartphone if you login to Mumsnet. That gives you access to your preferences, watch list, private messages etc and it allows us to personalise the content based on your profile.

Surely this can then be linked to ip or email address by google who can add all threads viewed, discussions had to every other bit of data being collated?

I do not log into fb or any of the other sharing site on my phone because the security is less than on my pc, I am glad to see from this thread that this is not unusual. I too will review all web usage and probably do false reg details for mn from now on. You had a great bonus for those of us concerned about anonymity by allowing name change function, this forced tracking stuff is not nice if inevitable but removes you as the last bastion of online sanity in my book.

Hi Viper, the test has stopped now and there is not any forced login happening now.

By the phrase "linking your PC/smartphone" we just mean that if you log in on your phone you will be able to see the threads your watching etc. This info is not shared with Google.

Thanks for stopping this, and also the responses on this and the other thread MNHQ and Justine.

I am glad the test has stopped, just wondering what conclusion HQ will arrive at about how to proceed now.

Whatever is decided please keep us in the loop if you can.

Thanks.

Thank-you for the update, and for responding to our concerns, Justine.

Just as an aside, you (MN) will probably have found that I click on the Ante-Natal clubs and Conception topics - as the Chat topic sits between those two topics in Popular Talk Forums.

This is (a) because I'm using an iPad Mini at the moment and it's hard to see to click on the correct topic (especially when the 'enlarge' doofer doesn't work) and (b) because of the large ads at the top of the page (desktop site) means that the page jumps around frequently (I'm sure there are a number of threads about this on Site Stuff already), so it's only too easy to click on the wrong topic - or thread whilst the page is jumping around.

I have no interest in ante-natal or conception threads as I'm far too old for that - but I'll be fascinated to see what personalisation I'll get now!

I fairly often go to hide threads on my phone & open them by mistake.

It should be clear when someone's clicked on something accidentally & jumped straight out again though.

Another thanks for stopping the forced log in and for the comments.

Hurrah, I can keep mumsnetting at work :)
Thanks mumsnet!

phew thank goodness it will be gone. I gave up several times as a result.

As Mumsnet continues to grow we have more and more broad content which we think is interesting and useful but alerting people to its existence is a challenge when there's so much of it

And therein lies your problem. The majority of MNetters are only interested in the talk forum. Most don't care about your bloggers, competitions, webchats, reviews, market research etc. I can appreciate that's frustrating for MNHQ when you want to start a campaign but you're being ignored because everyone's on AIBU but the forums are what made your website popular.

re-reading what I wrote at midnight, I sound condescending to MNHQ and the members

It was meant to be factual and sympathetic!

Late to the party but I experienced this a few days ago when I was on holiday, using my phone and couldn't remember my login. I honestly thought it was a coding error. It meant that I went to another site.

I do user experience research as part of my job and I would strongly advise any commercial client not to do this without a clear X displayed so that users can close it down.

No one would expect a forced login/signup in the form of a lghtbox, unless it's part of a paywall like The Times. From the user point of view it breaks convention (lightboxes/interstitials always have a close/escape) and from the Mumsnet point of view it breaks trust. You have to make logging in/signing up/active participation (if that's what you're after) more enticing in a different way.

(I think personalisation is vastly overhyped, but that's a separate conversation...)