Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk

Back to thread
Original poster

Why is Mumsnet insisting that I log in?

25 replies

CrispEater · 17/08/2016 09:58

I spend quite a lot of time browsing Mumsnet on my Samsung tablet, not logged in. I rarely post anything but if I do, I do that on my PC because I can type quicker on a proper keyboard.
Just now I was in Mumsnet on the tablet and kept getting a pop-up that insists I should either log in or join. As far as I can see, there is no way of getting rid of this pop-up except by logging in or joining or giving up on Mumsnet. It looks very genuine to me.
I really can't be bothered to keep logging in when I only want to browse and I hate being forced into doing something I'd rather not do.
Is there some reason why Mumsnet now wants everyone logged in all the time? Or have I missed something?

Go to post
MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 17/08/2016 10:36

Hi all,

This is us, no phishing involved.

We have been and continue to test as we would like to be able to add more personalisation in the future to improve user experience by showing more relevant, useful content. We can only do this when folks are logged in.

We are keeping an eye out for your feedback on this but it is us and not anything untoward.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 15:01

@RhubarbRhubarbRhubarb

Slinging my twopenny in:

I understand advertisers like to tailor ads but when you're just browsing its utterly annoying. It stops you viewing the full thread unless you login and frankly just dumping it on us without a by-the-way-this-is-happening-soon is pretty presumptious.

It's not just ads - more important for us is to get the content right. For example we really don't need to be showing ovulation calendars to someone like me (sadly) but I'd love to see more teens content/ threads - we do need folks to log in for us to be able to achieve that. But, as said, this is only a test and we're keen to do it in a way that causes as little annoyance as possible, so the feedback is very useful - thanks and keep it coming.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 15:52

@SpinnakerInTheEther

Justine I might like to look at ovulation calendars, even when I'm getting past wanting more children. I might not want reminding of more teen content, just because I've posted on a few threads.

The thing is all this 'personalisation' not only feels intrusive but it is unnecessarily presumptive. I liked the fact that on MN you could browse anonymously or sign in and chose threads etc to hide. There was an amount of user control, which with this change, it feels like we've lost.

I also don't like to have to continually log in just to read posts or stay logged in for another computer user to read what I've been posting.

You might want to and you still can access ovulation calendars - but especially given that most users (2/3rds) are accessing MN on phone screen it means there is a very limited space to showcase stuff and experience shows us that users tend to be much more interested in some content areas than others. We'd rather show people the stuff they're likely to want to see than stuff they aren't. Of course won't be 100% accurate but it should be an improvement for the majority of people.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 15:54

@Ribbet8890

Feedback: I have logged in specifically to provide it. Everytime I browse without logging in and the login screen comes up with out the option to close it, I will leave your site.

Thanks for that - bounce rates are one of the things we will be monitoring in our test, for sure.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 16:15

@BeingATwatItsABingThing

I can understand maybe personalising once people have logged on but surely letting people browse logged out isn't an issue.

How are new people going to know they want to join if they can't see any threads?

Well we're testing a metered login at this point - you only get a prompt after 10 pages so people will be able to browse a fair bit before giving an email address (which only takes a second). It maybe that 10 pages isn't optimal - but it's pretty close to monthly use for a returning user so we thought it was a good place to start.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 16:59

@TeaTowelQueen

I've just had to do this and when you do log in as demanded it dumps you in talk and you can't find the thread again grrrrr and please don't patronise me with personalisation

That's something we can definitely look at TeaTowel - i.e. not diverting you from where you've come from.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 17/08/2016 17:37

@TeaTowelQueen

Oh and it happens EVERY TIME I click through from face book not 'after 10 pages'

Sorry but we're having some trouble replicating this Teatowel. Can we check you are
a) not logged in
and
b) haven't previously visited Mumsnet talk today

Once you've visited 10 pages it'll keep appearing until you log in.

Thanks

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 17/08/2016 18:40

This is really useful feedback thank you, it's something we're testing so it is important to us to hear your thoughts. Apologies for not responding individually to all but to answer a few points raised.

We definitely don't want to alarm anyone or cause concern about hacking so we'll think more about how we could avoid that with branded and clearer wording.

We haven't included a dismiss / 'no thanks' option in this test though we have in other versions. We're trying different approaches in a series of tests.

We'll release a fix for keeping folk on the thread they were browsing tomorrow morning sorry about that and investigate reports of the popup appearing before the 10 page trigger.

Thanks again

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 20:19

@bibbitybobbityyhat

Was just going to say the same thing Haffdonga! Why has this been snuck in through the back door with no announcement? Were HQ thinking people wouldn't notice?

Well it's hardly been snuck through the back door as it's pretty in your face innit - it's a forced login! - but it's true we didn't anticipate people thinking it was malicious and probably should have. Sorry about that - had we thought of that we would have put a thread up on site stuff about it (although not everyone would have seen it).

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 20:21

@EmpressOfTheSevenOceans

It does sound like they're looking for ways to lure more MNers to the main site. And we are of course far easier to track if we're logged in.

I wonder how much audience overlap there is between the main site & the boards?

Talk is part of the main site as far as we are concerned - don't really make a distinction in that way. Talk traffic accounts for nearly 90% of total traffic but other content is more significant as an entry point for new users.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 17/08/2016 20:23

@TeacupDrama

just let us close the pop up

As Jess said, we've tried a test or two like that - now we're testing something else. We don't need to do it for more than a few days to get some decent data though. Will let you all know the results!

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 18/08/2016 10:01

@MrsVamos

Goes quite against ....'by parents for parents'.

I have a horrible feeling HQ know that though and don't really care. Sad

We definitely do care and just to reassure folk - we are reading everyone's feedback and taking note. It's very important to us that Mumsnet remains useful to parents. One of the considerations in setting 10 pages as a trigger was so people could access Talk first and then log in once they'd been browsing a little while.

The 10 page limit persists from one day to the next which may explain why some people are finding themselves blocked today but we'll continue trying to replicate that issue.

It is very much an experiment and hearing about issues such as the need to browse privately at work is really valuable.

Re the 'filter bubble' as Justine says, personalisation is more about not wanting to show irrelevant content such as ovulation calculators to everyone rather than restricting the threads you can see. We wouldn't want to reduce the diversity of opinion and interactions.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 18/08/2016 15:08

Ok thanks for the feedback folks - we're about to release a change that means that once you've logged in at least once (per device I think) you won't see the pop up again it again even if you log out.

Sorry for those who've been irritated this test of which clearly there's a fair few - it's been a useful trial for us and we do need to keep trialling different things if we're to keep the site relevant and viable but it is only a trial and obviously we're not going to make any permanent changes that materially hamper folks' use of enjoyment of MN. We'll keep you posted re tests etc.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 18/08/2016 16:37

@PurpleHebe

And it is still popping up, even though I have logged in and out Sad

Hi PurpleHebe, we've released the change so that you shouldn't see it again if you log in once and then log out - would you mind trying again and letting us know if you are still having problems?

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 10:17

Good morning,

Apologies for slow response yesterday.

We'll only be running this version of test for a short time longer and we do appreciate it's been annoying for some. We do need to run tests in order to find out what works and what doesn't and sometimes we can't really announce these ahead of time because that can impact how people behave.

Part of our analysis of testing is also to consider users' feelings and reaction not just the stats and we will absolutely be taking your comments here into account. We'll try to answer some more specific points raised now.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 10:18

For those that are still seeing popups after logging in and out again - as MrsVamos says it could be affected if you're resetting your browser. We made this change to try to help people who were feeling particularly irritated by the test but didn't want to log in so if it's not working we're keen to fix.

If you're still seeing the popup could you please let us know what browser you're using and we'll keep investigating.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 10:43

@BungoWomble

So glad to find this thread, I'll add my name to the list of those who don't want a more personalised service thanks. I'll log into specific threads if I have something interesting/ useful / relevant (imho) to contribute, and not otherwise. In fact if mumsnet is now going down the personalise-and-track route I will really start to think it's had it's day. I'll lump it in with the rest of the privacy-invading social media and avoid.

I have logged in today and am still getting the pop up, not sure when the change mentioned was supposed to take effect?

Thanks BungoWomble, this seems a pretty common theme.

Tracking is something most websites do to greater and lesser extents. Nearly all use Google analytics for example which monitors user behaviour across site. Some go further (e.g. Facebook) where virtually all content is personalised - news feed/ads/sponsored messages.

As Mumsnet continues to grow we have more and more broad content which we think is interesting and useful but alerting people to its existence is a challenge when there's so much of it and not all of it is relevant to all people. Among the ways we've been tried include slider alerts, popups about webchats, competitions and new content. These can be annoying too to users if they're not relevant or interesting.

We'd like to improve experience by signposting more relevant content we think people would find interesting and when people are logged in there's more opportunity to do so.

Advertising on Mumsnet is already targeted in various ways. We use google ads in some places (in common with many websites) and those ads are different depending on your browsing history. We don't currently target content but it's an area we're exploring. Everything we publish would still be available to everyone but perhaps showcased more specifically.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 10:52

@whenwillsummercome

The idea that logging in will personalise content makes me more likely to log out (I'm logged in permanently on my (own private) laptop, which is mostly where I browse from). I hate the way in which the internet increasingly shows me what it thinks I like or will agree with. How can my opinions develop? How can I discover new things?

A few people have mentioned this approach creating a kind of bubble of opinion. We wouldn't want to go down that route and aren't considering for example, only showing threads from people you've interacted before (the Facebook news feed approach) it's more about adding to what content you can discover. Mumsnet is pretty big in terms of content and some of it might be genuinely useful to you but easily missed - think reviews, offers, local. If we could expose more relevant parts we think it would be more useful and engaging.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 10:54

@Elendon

I see a pop up with my Safari, ipad, but none with Chrome, laptop. Finding it difficult to log in with ipad.

Thanks Elendon, we'll take a look at that specific scenario.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 11:02

@EmpressOfTheSevenOceans

Jessica, I work in SEO & understand the importance of tracking, but what about the point that's been made several times about people wanting to be able to browse MN for a while before they actually join?

It is a very valid point and one we agree with. We used 10 pages as a limit in this test because based on our data that seemed a good proxy for average time to look at a few threads and know you're interested in Mumsnet before joining. 10 pages is only one potential trigger though and we'd need to do more experimenting before we could uncover the best approach.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 11:10

@MardyBra

What about the automatic checking of the "remember me" box too MNHQ? This was an issue in the past and after much discussion MNHQ agreed to leave it unchecked. Why the change of mind?

Thanks MardyBra, we'll look into this for you. It's checked on in the regular log in pages too so not different on the popup specifically.

MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 11:54

Thank you all, we're going to stop this test shortly.

We really do appreciate those of you who have taken time to post your thoughts. This has been a very useful test for us both in terms of test stats and also (and especially) hearing your reactions. We're sorry it's caused some folk pain and annoyance but we've been listening and that'll inform any future tests or decisions.

Flowers
MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 19/08/2016 13:54

Hi all,
I've posted a response on another thread which I think answers some questions here.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 19/08/2016 14:37

@user1471601572

The only reason I can see for this is so that MNHQ can capture and record the IP Address/Hardware ID of every device a user has and associate it with the MN User name(s) and then those with a single MNHQ User ID on MN database. This is why we are being asked to log in once from every device. Afterwards, even if you are browsing without logging in, MN will be able to see who you are, because they can always see the IP address/ID and have now associated each address with a username.

And even if you are not logged in afterwards, MN can still access your cookies (unless you have s cookie blocker) so they will be able to use them, from all devices collectively, as a single identified user.

Can any techs out there confirm this?

I think it IS a massive phishing exercise. I think it is a very underhand way of obtaining your users' data by stealth MNHQ. Shame on you

As posted on the other thread...

It's worth clarifying a few points I think:

  1. We do not track our users' browsing history outside of Mumsnet. Unlike Facebook, Amazon, Google etc where every site you visit that has a Facebook button on it is most likely tracking your browsing, Mumsnet does not do this, not even on websites that display our bloggers' badges and widgets. We are only tracking the pages you visit on Mumsnet.
  1. Some of the the ad service providers that we use (Google ads) may be looking at your browsing on other websites that also use their technology, but they have no access to personal information that provide when you register. Mumsnet does not give them your email address, name or even your Mumsnet username.
  1. We only “link” you across your PC and smartphone if you login to Mumsnet. That gives you access to your preferences, watch list, private messages etc and it allows us to personalise the content based on your profile.
MNHQ

JessicaMumsnet · 19/08/2016 15:18

@Vipermisnomer

Agreed user.

3. We only “link” you across your PC and smartphone if you login to Mumsnet. That gives you access to your preferences, watch list, private messages etc and it allows us to personalise the content based on your profile.

Surely this can then be linked to ip or email address by google who can add all threads viewed, discussions had to every other bit of data being collated?

I do not log into fb or any of the other sharing site on my phone because the security is less than on my pc, I am glad to see from this thread that this is not unusual. I too will review all web usage and probably do false reg details for mn from now on. You had a great bonus for those of us concerned about anonymity by allowing name change function, this forced tracking stuff is not nice if inevitable but removes you as the last bastion of online sanity in my book.

Hi Viper, the test has stopped now and there is not any forced login happening now.

By the phrase "linking your PC/smartphone" we just mean that if you log in on your phone you will be able to see the threads your watching etc. This info is not shared with Google.

Watch this thread for updates

Tap "Watch" to get all the latest updates

End of posts

There are no more MNHQ posts on this thread

Back to thread