Jack Monroe thread deletion

[MephistoMarley]

Is it just me or is this not an explanation as to why it was deleted?

^hread deleted
Message from MNHQ: Hi all - we are removing this thread^

Mumsnet is a general interest site; we moderate across a wide host of issues on a daily basis, and can’t claim to be experts in any one field. As a result, our policy in terms of Talk Guidelines and what we deem deletable has always been inclusive rather than exclusive: we find it more sustainable to operate under broad principles of mutual respect and courtesy, rather than specifying what users can and can’t say on any given topic

Ultimately, we think one of the real strengths of MN is that it allows users to have robust disagreements about difficult topics, but without hate speech, and without comments that are just plain mean (or personally directed at other posters.) If there are any posts that you think we need to look at please flag them up by hitting the 'Report' button and we'll always take a look

I'm asking because I'm concerned that there is a trend towards censoring debate around trans issues. I'm sure you did have a good reason to delete but I don't believe the message above communicates it. Could I request clarification please?

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

Waves to Coco.
That AMA thread is fascinating from a psychological point of view. JM is being treated respectfully, as it should be, and there are questions of the type I have seen on trans debates but the tone of the debate seems completely different. Not as confrontational.

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

Why on earth should it be deleted- JM did not want it deleted and seems to be holding their own. No one is being aggressive or overly challenging. It reads like a guest chat to be honest. JM says they are mentally in a good place so deletion for their own good would seem counter intuitive and misplaced concern.

[IPityThePontipines]

that not a word can be uttered on the trans issue

That is incredibly unfair on MN. There have been tons on trans threads on MN, the vast majority of which have been allowed to stand, so I don't know how you can state that with a straight face.


I shudder to think what a Black Lives Matters thread would be like on here these days. I saw one recently and it was full of bigoted types making a show of themselves.

[ohdearme1958]

Today 12:48 EmpressOfTheVaginaDentata

I think reporting for "aggressive use of cis" is entirely justified. Plenty of us consider it to be an offensive & misogynist term

There was one post that said we had no right to not want to be referred to as Cis. I think the poster said it offended her that people felt this way.

I couldn't care less.

[Lorelei76]

Pontipines, every thread I've seen - obviously I'm not here all the time - that has got to the heart of the issue has been deleted - but in fairness I only started looking at those threads recently so I might well have missed some where there's been less censorship, I'll have a look through.

[Whentheshipgoesdown]

Wanted to second/third that over on the TayTo thread there is nothing but love; the moistened chute is a reference to a Daily Mail caption and the current thread title a Carter USM tribute so hardly a PA, although I wouldn't expect anyone to read three and a half thousand posts to find that out. And Sleb Twaddle is in many ways what the rest of MN should be like - a fun, witty, often fast-moving board where you can meet likeminded people without bunfights about benefits, competitive cleanliness,
troll hunting or sneering. Unless you've read the threads it's easy to imagine we're slagging off Taylor like the vile ham sandwich twitter meme but we're doing nothing of the sort, and posting links to Calvin Harris's twitter and having long running shoe gags is a long way from what is said about a lot of other people in other areas of MN, like Katie Hopkins, Peter Andre and Jack theirself.

[CherryPicking]

I remember being the only person who thought a thread claiming Nicola Sturgeon was guilty of treason was libellous. MNHQ ignored me. Even as Wooly Hugs knit for Jo Cox. Can someone please start a thread about Jack Monroe committing treason so we can see what MNHQ do?

[StrangeLookingParasite]

When a thread starts veering towards a "debate around trans issues" it inevitably becomes a "debate" about trans people's right to exist. That discourse is harmful, and it is right that threads like that should be deleted.

Absolutely untrue. Total lie.

I am not surprised, there is a very vocal trans hating group on here, its for the best! Poor JM, I cant even imagine what was being written

Lie.

he combination of personal attacks on JM, minimisation of on line threats, people reporting agressive use of Cis, wanting to gouge other's eyes out, posts stating intent to misgender, and the use of the phrase Subhuman fucktoiletsangry was obviously enough to delete the whole thing.

Very serious misrepresentation.


I will clarify. The phrase Subhuman fucktoilet was not used against JM personally. It was used to describe all women.

Another serious misrepresentation.

[JudyCoolibar]

Otherwise it is pretty clear that the deletion measure is actually a smokescreen and what you really wanted to do was shut down the discussion about trans issues.

Given the disproportionate number of threads round here about trans issues, that really is an extraordinary statement to make.

[rumblingDMexploitingbstds]

When a thread starts veering towards a "debate around trans issues" it inevitably becomes a "debate" about trans people's right to exist.

I've read plenty of those threads and thank God have never seen one that even suggests that.

There is challenging of some transactivist assertions (and the varied branches of transactivism in no way represents the views and feelings of every trans person any more than Stonewall represents the views and feelings of every gay person), there is challenging of the language and particularly the rejection of science as a basis. The bottom line of almost every thread is 'your right to wave your fist around ends at my nose'.

There is a whole lot of middle ground in between 'totally and unconditionally, unquestioningly pro transactivism' and 'hate speech', and it has to be ok to discuss that middle ground. Brexit is a brilliant example of the mess that happens when it's just not ok to challenge an orthodoxy that has some obvious flaws and come down to opinions and feelings rather than facts.

[TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross]

Given the disproportionate number of threads round here about trans issues, that really is an extraordinary statement to make.

So why is it this one that has been deleted then when there are, as other posters have said, a number of threads floating around which also contain "nasty and just plain mean" comments about individuals?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Maybe more people reported it. From each side and none, and for lots of different reasons.

[LunaLoveg00d]

I started that thread. I didn't see very much in the way of nastiness AT ALL - in fact the only poster who got it in the neck was someone who started throwing about terms like "cisgender" and name calling anyone who disagreed with her.

It was a sensible, open debate with very little bad language and offensive comments. Plus, since the thread was pulled the person who prompted the discussion has come and started her own thread asking for questions on this very topic.

[LunaLoveg00d]

Oh, and I am fairly new to MN within the last 6 months and had no idea that Jack Monroe posted on here. Would that have made a difference to posting the thread? Probably not.

When someone in the public eye makes public comments, in a newspaper along the lines of "you don't have to have a penis to be a man" you cannot expect that not to be commented on.

[LunaLoveg00d]

Also (apologies for series of posts), I am quite offended that MN think the post was "quite nasty and plain mean".

All the initial post said - and i'm paraphrasing as it's deleted and I can't find a copy - was that Jack can define herself in whichever way she pleases, ask people to use he/she/they or whatever, but why is it something which needs to be broadcast?

[DioneTheDiabolist]

She answered that on the thread she started: she did an interview about the Diversity Awards, the journo filed a copy that focussed on how she self identifies.

[JacquettaWoodville]

Luna, MNHQ may have been describing the thread in general, not your op

[alreadytaken]

didnt see the thread - but mumsnet has become a sick place where it would be good if a lot more got deleted.

[LunaLoveg00d]

No - the message upthread says: "we felt the OP post was quite nasty and just plain mean about an individual. "