Jack Monroe thread deletion

[MephistoMarley]

Is it just me or is this not an explanation as to why it was deleted?

^hread deleted
Message from MNHQ: Hi all - we are removing this thread^

Mumsnet is a general interest site; we moderate across a wide host of issues on a daily basis, and can’t claim to be experts in any one field. As a result, our policy in terms of Talk Guidelines and what we deem deletable has always been inclusive rather than exclusive: we find it more sustainable to operate under broad principles of mutual respect and courtesy, rather than specifying what users can and can’t say on any given topic

Ultimately, we think one of the real strengths of MN is that it allows users to have robust disagreements about difficult topics, but without hate speech, and without comments that are just plain mean (or personally directed at other posters.) If there are any posts that you think we need to look at please flag them up by hitting the 'Report' button and we'll always take a look

I'm asking because I'm concerned that there is a trend towards censoring debate around trans issues. I'm sure you did have a good reason to delete but I don't believe the message above communicates it. Could I request clarification please?

[Nydj]

Just to clarify - I think both, the thread on black loves matter and yesterday's thread on JM should have been deleted. I am starting to agree with other posters on other threads about MNHQs the double standards of letting racist and disabilist threads stand to 'educate'. The time when such things were possible have long since gone as the site has grown.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I will clarify. The phrase Subhuman fucktoilet was not used against JM personally. It was used to describe all women.

[MyMurphy]

Who is Jack Munroe anyway?

[CalmItKermitt]

What the hell? I've seen far worse aimed at other "celebs" and they don't get deleted! 😮

[CalmItKermitt]

Not that I class JM as a celebrity.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Jack is here answering questions

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2693127-Im-Jack-Monroe-Ask-me-anything

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

The phrase Subhuman fucktoilet was not used against JM personally. It was used to describe all women

By a woman, describing in (admittedly exaggerated terms) how society views women

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

I did not see the JM thread so do not know how vitriolic or personal it got.
I would say, however, that we LOVE Taytay and Tim on our Sleb twaddle threads. We might be taking the piss out of his shoes but we have had four threads whereby none of us have had a cross word. Call me out for being a hypocrite if you like but there is a huge difference between questioning JMs parenting and questioning THs capsule wardrobe. Love and bunny hugs xx

[JudyCoolibar]

FFS, are we really going to have a debate along the lines of "We've got away with being foul about X, so we should be allowed to be foul about Y" - notwithstanding that Y has known mental health issues?

Discussions around here on trans issues inevitably become aggressive. When that merges with personal attacks, it's definitely time for the thread to go.

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

in which not whereby.

[KingLooieCatz]

Respect to Jack for personally stopping by to comment, barely noticed by subsequent posters weirdly.

[LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett]

Agreed King - I was starting to think I'd imagined her post!

[TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross]

MNHQ - as others have asked, could you clarify why this thread was deleted and others, which are "mean" about more famous individuals, are allowed to stand? Surely you should have a consistent policy.

Otherwise it is pretty clear that the deletion measure is actually a smokescreen and what you really wanted to do was shut down the discussion about trans issues.

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

Am going to read the AMA thread now but having read the OP kudos and I hope the critics have the grace and courage of their convictions to indeed respect whilst debating with JM.
Sadly I do not think Taylor or Tim will ever do an AMA on here but I live in hope. Tim, How many pairs of grey suede shoes do you own and what is your favourite biscuit will not exactly be cutting edge but you never know.

[JacquettaWoodville]

Also respect Jack for posting!

[Babycham1979]

These strike me as weasel words;

we find it more sustainable to operate under broad principles of mutual respect and courtesy, rather than specifying what users can and can’t say on any given topic

Ultimately, we think one of the real strengths of MN is that it allows users to have robust disagreements about difficult topics, but without hate speech, and without comments that are just plain mean

Rather like the attempts by some MPs to silence dissent, 'offence' and 'hate speech' are used as catch-all terms to silence disagreement.

Genuine abuse is abhorrent, but 'being mean' is a fact of life and often a facet of 'robust disagreements'.

[Babycham1979]

There are, incidentally, a number of threads on the Feminism boards that are far closer to 'hate speech' than the content of that particular discussion about trans issues (eg 'I'm starting to hate all men'). Double standards?

[Cocolepew]

The TayTo ones arent cruel, we arent saying anything more than whats in the papers. And being ridiculous.
We ❤️ them and Lulu

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

Well, I have just been over there and it all seemed quite civil. Kudos to JM though as that takes guts. Wish it was in the feminism topic rather than in the news though.

[MephistoMarley]

I am not surprised, there is a very vocal trans hating group on here, its for the best! Poor JM, I cant even imagine what was being written

If you can't even imagine what was written, how can you comment on it?

The poster who used the phrase 'subhuman fucktoilet' didn't break any talk guidelines. If you thought she was calling all women subhuman fucktoilets then you're frankly a bit thick.

[alltouchedout]

Going by what is posted in many trans threads on here, stuff that has me staring at the screen aghast that grown women can be so vile, I certainly can imagine the sort of things that would have been posted. I'm glad mnhq are dealing with some of the hate.

[rumblingDMexploitingbstds]

It's what constitutes 'hate speech'.

For example you may be as critical, challenging and outright rude about Christians as you please on MN, ('skyfairies/invisible friends' etc) they are fair game: Catholicism especially so. I've challenged MNHQ before now about threads and been told it was just robust discussion. Threads like KM etc equally so. Disability threads often suffer from some of this.

However there are certain subjects and topics where not being 'on message', challenging orthodoxy, or in the eyes of some posters, just plain refusing to be unconditionally and unquestioningly supportive of that group/topic - in other words exempting those subjects from the same standards normally applied - gets named in threads as being hate speech in itself.

It does worry me that there are some emperors running around in the nud that it's not ok to ask wtf they're doing instead of applauding.

[QueenLaBeefah]

I think it would be best if Mumsnwt also deleted the thread JM has started.

I don't think she is mentally robust enough and it would be best if Mumsnet deleted it.

[Lorelei76]

Queen, not yet, still waiting for an answer on the women's safe spaces question...

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Not thick OP, just disgusted that a "feminist" would take the time to coin such a phrase and another "feminist" would use it to describe the assignation of Female on a birth cert.