Banning the term "cis"

[OlennasWimple]

Apologies if this had already been done, but can MNHQ consider banning the term "cis", given how horrifically offensive so many users of MN find it?

I don't think I need to set out the background and reasoning to this request (but can do so if it would help!)

Great post seekevery

speakergirl not all transwomen are out to rape you, abduct your children, infiltrate your platform, etc.
So some transwomen are, then?
Your words, not ours.

So say (for example) my friend has gorgeous red hair which gets loads of compliments - I might think "I'd love to have red hair like x because it looks lovely and other people react to it in a different way to my brown hair".

I could decide I wanted to dye mine to get the same reactions, but I wouldn't think that being redheaded felt any different (other than liking the nice things people say about my new hair colour and perhaps feeling more confident because of it).

I am offended by the term cis.

It just amazes me that it is deemed acceptable to tell women what we should be offended by.

In fact, I don't even know how it feels to be a woman.
I only know how I feel being a woman. (Good point by earlier pp)

I am a biological woman, I am not "trans".
I do not accept or identify with the cultural construct of gender, I am not "cis".

I am simply a woman.

Please don't make assumptions about my feelings about gender based on my biology. Saying that all women who are not trans must be cis is simply hugely inaccurate and wrong.

Good analogy, actually.

Let's say that always wanted to be blond, bleached, highlighted & achieved natural-looking blond hair as soon as I was legally able to. Then diligently kept it up with monthly hairdresser appointments as soon as dark roots started showing. The world treats me as blond and that makes me happy.

Would it be OK to insist that I claim that I am a natural blond and throw a tantrum when people say "But you color your hair"?

Good point Laura , But I wonder what treating and responding to someone as a woman (or man) means? Shouldn't we all just be treated and responded to as people rather than in a certain way according to our chromosomes?
If my DH and I are at a restaurant, I don't expect the staff to be any more or less polite to me than to him.

Don't mean that as a criticism of your point, by the way - you may be right - but anyone who dresses as a woman so that they can be "treated and reacted to" as one surely has a pretty sexist idea of what being a woman involves and of their place in society should be.

we should start calling out behaviours like suppressing talk about common women's bodily functions as gynophobia.

This (and calling out other related damaging behaviours) is important. Until I joined MN, I didn't know that others felt the way that I did. I wish I'd found MN earlier because I really could have used backup in a situation that to me, seemed incomprehensible, but I got accused of being transphobic/ bigotted n' all that jazz (long story short, some trans women joined our womens' industry club and started calling the shots on how we could refer to each other and what we could talk about. The whole purpose of the club was to support women. I've spoken about it on here before so won't go into detail). So perhaps we should call on each other to have each others' backs when ridiculous situations that invalidate us crop up. The media invalidates our argument and as individuals, away from the computer, nobody really wants to put their head above the parapet and this fear is enabling to those that would oppress us.

I know this language sounds inflammatory but I've direct experience of finding a tiny corner to hang out with women, to empower each other, and having that space utterly, utterly destroyed. And I'm still pissed off about it.

Sorry, I went off on one. To be clear, I'm very 'live and let live' but the same courtesy was not extended to me.

So cis is a loaded word to me and I want none of it.

"Saying that all women who are not trans must be cis is simply hugely inaccurate and wrong."

Well, according to the currently accepted definition of "cis" then it's not inaccurate, unless you are a trans man. In which case, you are not cis.

I don't like cis- I very simply won't use any language or support any cause that diminishes women's rights and weakens our position in the world.

And if I was incredibly foolhardy, I would say that I reckon we'll look back in 10, or even 5 years and wonder what on earth we were getting so exercised about. But I'm not, so I won't.

To whoever said they'd never seen the term "cis" used as an insult, I give you this from "Terf is a slur".

(I think the poster has flounced though).

Well, according to the currently accepted definition of "cis" then it's not inaccurate, unless you are a trans man. In which case, you are not cis.

Can you explain that, Bertrand ? I may be wrong, but my understanding is that cis means "identifying" with the sex you are born into.
I don't 'identify' with any gender, so how can I be cis?

Do you have a female body? Do you tick the [f] box on a form? Then you're a cis woman.

I think that means you are a woman, bertrand. No need for any further words.

I tick F only because I have a female body. But being cis isn't as simple as having a female body, that's sex. Cis is about gender too.

Bertrand I thought that saying someone is cis means that their gender expression matches their sex. So a woman who chooses not to conform to gender expectations, but doesn't identify as male, is what?

Cis is a bullshit term pushed by the trans movement. It suggests that trans people have some kind of superior understanding/experience of femininity. As in your opinion isn't quite as valid because you only a cis woman.
It's highly offensive not to mention very patronising. You cannot tell me what I am allowed to be offended by.

Luckily I only ever hear this term on mn. Luckily for me the trans movement hasn't reached rural Devon yet and I don't have to deal with this nonsense in the playground/nursery/sainsburys/at work.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace thank you for your explanation, it was very well written. I started reading this thread thinking "huh? but how the hell is cis offensive?" I kind of get it now.

Don't know that I'm hugely fussed about banning it, but I'll think twice before I use it for anything but chemistry. Although, so far I've only ever used it in conversation when explaining stereoisomers to DH. He's totally uninterested in chemistry, so it was a fairly brief conversation.

Do you have a female body? Do you tick the [f] box on a form? Then you're a cis woman.

No, I'm a woman.

I have to say, I don't like the term.

I think, personally, it's because it's a term for women that has been allocated to us by another section of society. I don't identify as 'cis' other people identify me as 'cis'.

Cis can be used in geography too, apparently. As in, transpennine and cispennine. No, I've never actually heard the latter either, whereas the former is writ large on trains, cycle routes etc. because it's about the journey .

Hi all,

Thanks for this.

This is a subject that has come up and few times and our stance hasn't changed on it.

We have previously posted

We don't think flat banning certain terms is the way to go on this one at the moment. We think that folks should be civil and respectful of others and their points of view and by banning terms we would stifle discussion, we'd much rather look at each post in the context of the thread.

Having said that, if posters persistently misgender by using cis, or the incorrect pronoun intentionally to goad, then please do report and we will deal with them as a goady poster.

So please do report and we can take a look.

This site predominately used by women, the vast majority of whom object to the term cis.

MNHQ are being very quiet about this.

I take my isomerism very seriously LauraA (mutters darkly) and the positions are akin to stereoisomerism, not structural isomerism

I do understand chemistry, I have reasonable latin
and I don't accept being referred to as cis- anything

If you say I am cis it comes with set of assumptions
You assume I have a 'gender identity' in the way a trans individual does
You assume you know my biological sex
You assume that I accept and embrace your definition of my gender role

So trans individuals do not want to be defined externally: they want to be categorised not by biology but by feelings and personal identity, they do not want to have to disclose their biological sex, phenotype and genitals, and don't feel these relate to the social role they want to fill:

But cis is a term that seeks to define me, categorises me by my biological sex, phenotype and genitals, and relate this to a set of assumptions of how I am to behave and relate to the world (gender role)