Hey MNHQ. Would it be possible to have a discussion about how SN issues/threads are handled on the main boards.

[Pagwatch]

I know you are fire fighting a bit and I'm not trying to stir things up.

I just think that there are endless threads that require you to get involved and try to (for the sake of a better word) mediate between pissed of posters with no real experience of SN/disability and pissed off member of the SN/disability community.

I think you try really really hard to be fair and even handed. It's an understandable response but I have growing doubts about it.
There have been half a dozen threads recently where posters I recognise as living with SN/disability issues deal with a continuous stream of posts from any random who pops up on a thread making the same stupid, ill informed or frankly goady post.
It's like swimming through a tidal wave of shit.
Then, as posters get increasingly exasperated by each arriving poster saying 'well I'm not putting my buggy away if my baby is asleep' or 'why can't I use the disabled toilet if it's empty' or 'but people with SN can be violent. I know of stabbing someone and attacks all the time' they get rude and the thread descends into eurrgh.

I'm still reading constant posts where anyone affected by disability is berated if they are angry, the message being 'be nice, be grateful or we don't have to be fair'

It seems to me that the status quo of 'fairness' is simply unfair.
Posters already dealing with immense difficulty shouldn't be forced to defend themselves against every person who turns up and says unpleasant things under the umbrella of debate. You said a long time ago it was not our responsibility to educate but the reality is that, with no palpable support from you guys, we are endlessly having to educate.

I am not pretending to have the answer but is it possible to contemplate methods by which you could actually say to posters saying 'if someone in a wheelchair can't use their space because I'm not putting my buggy away' that their comments are wrong and not in the spirit of the site?

You link to the This Is My Child campaign but the posters who are the problem won't care and won't read it.

I don't know - I just wonder if you could think about this.
Sometimes there are not two sides to a debate because only one side is directly affected, exhausted, distressed and having their lives and their children's lives made harder.

Sorry

Damn typo's

Tbh, I am more than a little astonished to be being told, yet again, what is it 3? 4? years after the last big protest by posters with disabilities/with dc with disabilities, that MNHQ are just so busy and doing their best and not meaning to upset us

MNHQ actually going to get their act together? Clearly this is not a new problem - this is easily the third massive blow up with discussions rumbling on for days/weeks during my time here - so exactly what is going to change? If you couldn't sort it out when the site was smaller, how are you going to a mange it now? I'd really like an answer to that, and not just a wishy-washy 'well, our intentions are to X,Y,Z' (since we've already been told that, and oh, look, nothing has actually changed).

MNHQ, you can't hide behind 'please do keep flagging it up to us and we'll deal with it' - you can't keep up with the reports, which leaves us feeling as though MNHQ must disagree with the reporting being done, since no deletions are happening. The report system appears to be very low down on a list of priorities at MN towers - in the last couple of years it's taken a couple of days to get back to a report, always with the same 'oh, terribly sorry, we're very busy' excuse. It's just not good enough.

MNHQ need to take action to address this issue. At the moment this outweighs the "good parts" of MN for me and it doesn't feel like a place I feel welcome. - I'll go as far to say it's probably making everyone wigs NOT disablist (regardless of their personal circumstances) feel unwelcome. It's making bigots feel welcome.

Here's a thought - who are mn's major advertisers? Are they happy to be associated with a weak stance on disablism?

Sadly I also feel that "we're trying" and 'we'll get to it" isn't an adequate response. Sorry HQ, well meaning as you are :)

Yea 'we're trying' and 'we'll get to it' happens less frequently regarding racist posts/threads.

Sadly I also feel troll hunting IS prioritised (those posts are zapped almost immediately).

Sadly apologism is also low on priorities. (But I get that's really a different thread)

When you do get on to it I am quite impressed with the response though. Recently. Agree that the troll hunting shouldn't be first priority.

I have to say, I'm not too impressed with the response of

Please can we direct you to Rebecca's post of last night at 22:59:32
Thanks

My message was in a response to the MNHQ replies, which don't address (as far as I can see) the issue of people NCing to post disablist or goady fuckery stuff nor the fact MNHQ don't seem to be implementing the policy they've talked about - they're deleting responses to disablist posts rather than the posts themselves, and there is no response for ages, if at all when we report disablist posts.

I know there's a lot of us reporting and complaining and MNHQ are as ever, very busy, but surely the fact so many of us are reporting and/or complaining, shows the extent of the problem.

As I said, MN at the moment does not feel very welcoming at all and it's certainly not fun anymore. It feels like a minefield and it feels full of either goady or insensitively thoughtless disablist posters. It's a shame as there has been so much support and laughs on here in previous years.

Yes that was a bit curt miffle

The response you quoted.

Rebecca/Olivia

I am hugely sympathetic to the nuances of this situation. I'm also sympathetic to staffing levels, troll attacks, etc etc. I don't envy you at times and I think you personally manage these issues with huge grace under fire.

Nevertheless the idea that the endless complaints from posters dealing with disabilities /SN is about a hatred or dislike of MNHQ is missing the point and, forgive me, a bit rich.

Ive been here a decade, have been a huge personal supporter of the site and the staff and spent a great deal of time contemplating how to raise this issue without seeming overly critical before I started this thread.

I've tried to articulate how immensely hurtful it is for some of us, a group who literally includes many of your most vulnerable members, to be left to cope with endless snide, disingenuous, outright ignorant and unpleasant attitudes in the name of open discussion.

We don't expect ban hammers at the slightest offence. We don't want to stifle genuinely open debate. But we would wish, for the love of God, that just occasionally it would feel like you have our back.
Sometimes being fair is not about 50/50. Sometimes being fair includes saying 'actually we are not going to allow the tenth changing babies in the disabled toilet thread this week because it serves not purpose and it's upsetting too many people who actually live with these issues. Go and start an eating food in the supermarket thread because that's a bun fight which tends to have no victims.'

The determination to allow open discussion is simply aiding trolling. I could name change and ask 100 seemingly guileless questions about race and trans issues and feminism and cause a shit storm on here whilst never breaking talk guidelines.
If you don't stop people doing that you are aiding the isolation of your most vulnerable members.

I'm not pretending it's easy. And I stress I like you all personally and I am very very aware of how nuanced some posts and situations can be. Nor am I expecting you to do as I would wish all the time.
But it's not working at the moment and it does require you to make a moral choice to deal with it.

Can i ask, when there are six million reports for troll hunting on a thread, do you read them as you delete and look into the 'troll', or just automatically delete? I'm concerned that (as i said up there ^ last night) when you are getting six million reports, in your efforts to act quickly you are missing what those reprting the 'troll' are actually reporting, in an effort to delete the trollhunting asap. If that makes sense?

And while i understand trollhunting is against guidelines and anyone doing it is being naughty, it isnt quite on the same level as disabilism/racism.

I've tried to articulate how immensely hurtful it is for some of us, a group who literally includes many of your most vulnerable members, to be left to cope with endless snide, disingenuous, outright ignorant and unpleasant attitudes in the name of open discussion."

Well said pag

Pagwatch excellent post

Especially

If you don't stop people doing that you are aiding the isolation of your most vulnerable members.

Yy. All od pags post

I'm totally changing my name to oddpag.

Doh

Pag thank you.
It's not wait ignoring someone for days, not acknowledging their upset and then saying their requests for help are hateful.

Fantastic post, pag, thank you.

Yea the 'poor understaffed MNHQ' is wearing more than a little thin

Well put Pagwatch.

That's an extremely good analogy Maryz

I was on a thread once where the OP was getting dreadfully bullied. I jumped in and told them to stop with their bullying posts. Yet it wasn't bullying apparently. It was their opinion. And the same repeated opinion over 4 pages!

Well said Maryz

Well said mary and all those still have breathe to post on bus thread. Take my hat of to you. Funny how so many anguished parents saying how difficult things are for them- with lots of people agreeing. Not one person wants to start petition tweetatthon, email a bus company nothing. Because they have 2-3 years then they can ingore the problem all together! Think its a wheelchair space mantra along side "have you cancelled cheque yet" phrase.

Yy to maryz post too