Hey MNHQ. Would it be possible to have a discussion about how SN issues/threads are handled on the main boards.

[Pagwatch]

I know you are fire fighting a bit and I'm not trying to stir things up.

I just think that there are endless threads that require you to get involved and try to (for the sake of a better word) mediate between pissed of posters with no real experience of SN/disability and pissed off member of the SN/disability community.

I think you try really really hard to be fair and even handed. It's an understandable response but I have growing doubts about it.
There have been half a dozen threads recently where posters I recognise as living with SN/disability issues deal with a continuous stream of posts from any random who pops up on a thread making the same stupid, ill informed or frankly goady post.
It's like swimming through a tidal wave of shit.
Then, as posters get increasingly exasperated by each arriving poster saying 'well I'm not putting my buggy away if my baby is asleep' or 'why can't I use the disabled toilet if it's empty' or 'but people with SN can be violent. I know of stabbing someone and attacks all the time' they get rude and the thread descends into eurrgh.

I'm still reading constant posts where anyone affected by disability is berated if they are angry, the message being 'be nice, be grateful or we don't have to be fair'

It seems to me that the status quo of 'fairness' is simply unfair.
Posters already dealing with immense difficulty shouldn't be forced to defend themselves against every person who turns up and says unpleasant things under the umbrella of debate. You said a long time ago it was not our responsibility to educate but the reality is that, with no palpable support from you guys, we are endlessly having to educate.

I am not pretending to have the answer but is it possible to contemplate methods by which you could actually say to posters saying 'if someone in a wheelchair can't use their space because I'm not putting my buggy away' that their comments are wrong and not in the spirit of the site?

You link to the This Is My Child campaign but the posters who are the problem won't care and won't read it.

I don't know - I just wonder if you could think about this.
Sometimes there are not two sides to a debate because only one side is directly affected, exhausted, distressed and having their lives and their children's lives made harder.

That deletion message is fucking awesome. Here's hoping it heralds real change.

I can't see the deletion message!

User is the gift that keeps on giving!
She/he just sent me this pm

"you are quite frankly, disgusting. You just want attention because your fee fees are hurt"

But she headed it 'hi' - all jaunty like

Hi,

You are frankly disgusting...etc

Bwahahahaha

Is it just me or is the this is my child link from the rather lovely deletion post going to a biscuit?

.

Report the arse, pag.

Look

What are fee fees?

Nah, not bothered

She'd only go and bother someone who gives a shit.

My screenshot is crap. You'll have to trust me.

Sadly user is no more...

gone so sad.......

fee fee's?

what happened to good old feewings?

She needs a visit from the Waaaahmbulance....

What about noo noo?
That one made me crease up when the boys watched teletubbies...

MNHQ awesome deletion message, thank you!

Ithink thank you for your post.

Please someone tell me what the deletion message said?

dorothy it's here...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2660873-To-think-teachers-comments-are-wrong

The message

A lot of the time the unpleasant posts do come out on seemingly innocuous threads.

I have to admit that I notice a lot of unpleasantness against people with disabilitirs (and racism, and ageism) on the 'worst thing your child has said' threads - pages and pages of tittering because someone's little monster asked loudly why the lazy man was sitting down or the lady had no hair or the child had a funny mark. I hate them.

Hahahahaha at "hi"

Hiiiyaa!

What a cunt

Thank you x

I think there may be quite a few MNers like me who haven't posted for feeling like there's nothing useful or helpful to add to the discussion- I have only secondhand experience of disabilities with regards to friends/family/children I've nannied for, and didn't want to chime in with an irrelevant, superfluous comment even if it was well-meant.

But I've been reading the thread since it started, and will continue to do so to educate myself and be able to support your right to post, work and live without discrimination.

potofyoghurt

That's just the most gratifying kind of post to me - that someone with no direct need to be bothered is bothered. No well meaning comment would be superfluous - on the contrary, it would help show that it isn't just the "SN brigade" again, but that there are other people who just get it because they're decent human beings

Note - written before THAT deletion message (great though it is it is only one and would like to see more reassurance that this is going to be mnhq's stance henceforth).

So...
' cos the poster is clever enough to not actually break the guide lines.' I've suggested before the guidelines be reviewed - been flamed - and MNHQ done nothing.

I've had seemingly positive PRIVATE responses to reports BUT the posts are still there!

' If you wouldn't say it to someone's face' that's SUPPOSED to be one if the guidelines but I VERY RARELY see it implemented.

So is writing disablist shit - which is also ILLEGAL (wonder what equalities legislators would think of MNHQ allowing these posts to remain?). PLUS as several posters have said, would MNHQ be leaving these posts to stand if they were racist?

Yes to #justpeople

'Those that decry "the special needs brigade" are the very reason MNHQ need to step up and say "WE'RE the SN brigade and WE say stop with the disablist shit".'

Come on MNHQ!

'Why restrict posts about people's attitude to the forums where people understand it. We need to challenge the attitudes of those who don't!' THIS EXACTLY!

' It's been a very busy day today ' I'm SO SICK of seeing this as apparently it is mnhq's standard response when 'apologising' for letting things slip. If there's an excuse it's NOT a real apology (as I teach my dd!). If it's so busy so frequently HIRE MORE STAFF! I don't believe you couldn't afford to!! Plus would you have a think and an office discussion if mn were being flooded by racist posts?! I think not!

'one thing i wish mn hq would do. is when they delete a post for being disablist, they give that reason' yes, I hate the very vague 'for breaching talk guidelines'

' I also wonder if the three strikes thing just applies to one thread when it should be posters total history.' And for all types of breach. If goady on one thread, disablist on another and personal attack on another...ban!

Great article by sandy but...how is it directly relevant to this thread? No mention of experiences of prejudice from the general public

Posters saying they won't fold their buggy etc ARE disablist they are admitting they would act in a way so as to EXCLUDE the disabled which is illegal. 'What else call it, other than disablist?' Exactly

While it's possible to argue moderating would be hard, currently I really feel MNHQ are going too far the other way and where there's ANY doubt leaving posts up, not even hiding temporarily very often. I also don't like it's only one mod deciding. If there's a lot of report of a post at least 2 mods should review.

'. I don't say it lightly - I have been around MN about a decade and this is the worst I have ever seen it' 14 years for me and I agree, subtle moderation is one thing lax is quite another.

'If MNHQ want to be seen to taking a zero tolerance approval to disablism, which I assume they do, that doesn't mean just deleting whole bunfighty threads it means getting rid of disablist posters.' YES!

Morning Brigade!

I'm another who has no experience of SN within my immediate circle or family. I'd like to say [clumsily written post alert] that before MN I considered myself a bit right on and all that but through MN I've learned loads about people with SN (particularly ASD) and the twattery that they and their families can encounter whilst just getting along with life like everyone else.

So, I suppose I'm saying that even though at times the threads on MN give you a tidal wave of shite and are exasperating and hurtful there are those of us who are having our previously unchallenged minds opened, and realising that whilst of course we would never have been outwardly unkind or said anything, maybe there were times when our judgy pants were up our arses. And that not being unkind isn't enough, we need to be more on the front foot regarding examining our attitudes and whether we're actually being empathetic human beings.

Anyway, hope that's come across ok. I'm not for one second saying you should put up with shitty posts because it's a learning experience for the rest of us, I'm just trying to say that the discussion of SN stuff on MN does have some positive outcomes.

Baconyum you are so right on so many points

one thing that has always puzzled me is the gleeful way in way people post "oh I use a disabled toilet so what"
why would you admit that?
then you get "well disabled people can que"
or the best one....babies are disabled cos they can't walk (yep really fanjo can back me up on that one)

on a thread about wheelchairs on buses....there should be no discussion.
mn hq should just come on and say ITS A WHEELCHAIR SPACE and then f ing delete all the post stating otherwise.