Troll Hunting

[IthoughtATMwasacashpoint]

Another thread lost through thoughtless, unresearched, troll hunting.

Is it possible for MNHQ to start handing out bans for this?

It's not difficult to follow the rules, if in doubt report. Search the user name, then report if you still have doubts.

It's neither funny nor clever to drive upset and vulnerable people off their threads and away from the support and advice they sought by posting in the first place.

It depends on the troll, of course, but the really damaging ones - posting about emotional topics - do absolutely want people to believe them, but they also love to play the victim.

Shouting 'troll' on the thread allows a veneer of injured pride and distress and leads to arguments as some posters rally against the one who called 'troll' and start arguing with the troll-hunters; others start to say things like 'I can't believe this is a troll when I shared my story, I am upset now' and then others comfort those upset from the trolling, others start saying why it may not be a troll ... In short, it's disruptive, and meanwhile the troll sits there happy with their work, continuing to post injured comments and getting tea and sympathy.

Ignored and deleted (and yes, the sooner the better but I imagine most of MNHQ are parents too) is the best way to deal with it.

I agree MrsDeVere, and the money ones are concerning. However, and at the risk of sounding 'victim blaming' (I'm not) - I do think people need to take personal responsibility and not give money.

I did have offers of money once and I was genuine. I refused to accept it - politely - and was accused of trolling (This was via PM!)

I don't agree with nor understand the double standards regarding trolls and troll hunting.

The argument seems to be that by calling troll you may hurt the person posting the thread if they are genuine and if they are a troll then others reading who find themselves in a similar situation may have been helped by the advice given.

So all the people hurt by troll threads on sensitive subjects, which includes those that don't post but just read, their feelings don't count it is just tough for them is it?

If advice useful to others in a similar situation who are just reading is posted on a troll thread or suspected troll thread then by default it is useful if the person is not a troll and posting genuinely, therefore, they have got what they came for, i.e., useful advice and/or sympathy and can ignore/gloss over the accusations of troll just as those who trolls do hurt are expected to ignore/gloss over the damage caused to them.

The anti-troll hunters want it every which way.

The over-riding problem in my opinion is the lack of action by MN on troll or suspected troll threads, they are far, far, too slow to do anything and the only way they could lessen the troll/troll hunting problem is to change the way and speed they deal with it.

We are frequently told that MN loves reports and we should report, report, report, but what the hell is the point if it then takes hours and hours and sometimes days for MNHQ to actually do anything with the reports and then belatedly zap the thread, the damage has been done by then.

Three threads that I know of this week were reported by several people within minutes of the threads being started, six hours later MN finally zapped the threads with the deletion message that they were troll threads, that is pathetically slow.

I reported a poster who came onto a very nice innocuous thread last week for being rude, abusive and personally attacking other posters MNHQ did not delete the posts and after several e-mails back and forward admitted they should have done and apologising for the fact they hadn't and that they were too slow but that they had now taken action behind the scenes. It isn't good enough.

I think MNHQ need to implement a new system whereby if x no of reports are made within x period of time about a thread it is automatically hidden from view whilst they investigate, it can then be zapped or reinstated with a message that it has been checked and is genuine.

The anti troll hunters don't want it every which way; they just don't want threads disintegrating into:
'TROLL!'
'Cry. I'm not a troll. I'm upset.'
'Oh no, this is a troll? I'm upset because I shared my experience.'
'Trolls are awful. Look, the poster above shared her experience and she is upset.'
'This poster might not be a troll!'
'How can you accuse this poster of being a troll? The same situation happened to my best friends uncles girlfriend and I'm genuine.'
'TROLL!'
'Boo-hoo, I'm NOT a troll.'
'Mumsnet is horrible, this poster has been accused of being a troll.'
'This poster is a troll and I'm leaving Mumsnet.'
''
'Oh it's a troll thread.'
'I'm NOT a troll. Sob.'
'Trolling is disgusting, the poster above shared her personal experience.'
'This poster might not be a troll, I'm telling you, this happened to my sisters colleagues university lecturer so it might be true.'
'It is true! You lot are nasty!'
'I'm not a troll. Sniff sniff sniff.'

And so on and so forth. It's really disruptive.

I think the report boxes should be a bit more than 'Spam' or 'other'. I think it has come up before and MNHQ have said they don't think there's any need.

But surely a 'Troll?' box would be an option that could bring the report to the top of the pile so to speak.

Maryz, being accused of lying about one of the worst experiences of my life shook me in a way I haven't ever been able to articulate.

Someone being hurt and distressed by someone on the internet lying isn't acceptable and I feel for them but having gone through both - I don't think they're comparable.

I think the report boxes should be a bit more than 'Spam' or 'other'.

This I completely agree with, and I cannot understand why MN do not implement it!

• Spam

-Troll -Tech/Site issue

• Petition
• Survey

-Personal Attack

• Bunfight

The vast majority of these issues require very little thought to deal with and could all automatically be assigned to say one person, and all the troll reports could be automatically directed to MNHQ elite troll hunting unit to deal with properly, and staffed appropriately so that they could do their investigations.

It could be like Triage at A&E Its, with the most important things being dealt with urgently.

As opposed to
'I've been through x awful experience how do I deal with this'
'I've been through y very similar, awful experience, this is what I did'
'Me too, this is how I coped'
'And me, here's my advice, having relived that experience and felt that raw emotion all over again'

'Oh can I suggest you do this'
'you poor thing'
'flowers, unmumsnetty hugs'
'sympathy'
'this is how I coped when it happened to me'

'omg I was so worried'
'more sympathy, flowers'
'you poor thing, i remember how i felt'

I'm sorry you were accused of lying, Beatrice. We appear to have had equally bad experiences on both ends of the troll spectrum - both victims of trolls just in different ways.

Banning people who point out that a thread is posted by a troll isn't the answer when MNHQ is really, really slow to deal with the issue.

I think we are agreeing rather than disagreeing, Maryz, although I must admit, when I was accused of trolling - I felt angry! 'Enraged' might be more apt, although that was to do with a stressful situation anyway.

In the early hours of the this morning, 0121 to be precise, a thread was started in an unusual topic for the type of thread it was, fortunately as it turns out, but it was in Active.

A poster posted on the thread that she had reported it at 0147 as it was fake and a lie and produced the evidence to back it up.

The thread slipped out of Active, the OP obviously decided not to try and keep the thread going after that intervention.

I've just checked in area of the site where this thread was posted - IT IS STILL THERE.

Now that poster who alerted those clicking on the thread that it was a blatant lie can be accused of troll hunting, however, if she had just reported and said nothing on the thread I can guarantee that thread would have been in Active all day today with posters pouring out sympathy, advice and probably money and goods. All advice to the contrary from other posters who believed/suspected the person posting to be a troll would have fallen on deaf and indignant ears whilst MNHQ took their own sweet time to zap the thread whilst all the 'troll hunters' are harangued and reprimanded by MNHQ.

How can what that MNer who alerted potential posters to the deceit of the thread be in any way shape or form worse than what the person who started it did/was trying to do?

To the poster who asked if trolls just slink off and let threads die away if they are outed there is evidence of one that has.

In my opinion, if mn allowed people to ask questions like "were you really told the sex of your baby at ten weeks" or "did you really get pregnant four hours after your miscarriage" or "Were you really told you weren't entitled to child benefit" etc, then genuine posters could reply with honest answers, trolls would be stumped, and get huffy and give themselves away.

OK, I hadn't even realised MNHQ classed that as troll-hunting. Questions as above I would be fine with and wouldn't class as troll hunting.

I was classing troll hunting as the "Oh FFS" "Bollocks" "Interesting first thread OP" "If this is real XXX" type posts which I think should definitely not be able to stand and perpetual offenders should be suspended for.

I absolutely think that people should be able to ask straightforward, honest questions on a thread (not snidey, sarcastic, troll-hunting ones IYSWIM).

Now that poster who alerted those clicking on the thread that it was a blatant lie can be accused of troll hunting, however, if she had just reported and said nothing on the thread I can guarantee that thread would have been in Active all day today with posters pouring out sympathy, advice and probably money and goods.

Has anyone reported the thread to MNHQ?

Assuming so I'd say that is a problem with MNs troll SOPs, and not a justification for troll hunting.

I think perfectly normal enquiring questions are seen as troll hunting by the anti troll hunters who really want the very unlikely thread to be real and to carry on at all costs.

Agreeing with ItsAllGoingToBeFine - again :)

As I stated in my post ItsAll the thread was reported to MNHQ at 0147 with the evidence that it was a blatant fake thread.

People can so attuned to hunting the troll hunters though that even a simple "were you really told the sex of your baby at 10 weeks?" type comments are massively pounced upon. Especially if a knowing and conniving troll looking for maximum bunfighting sneaks in a couple of "woe is me, everybody hates me" comments.

So yes, I would say the probing is pretty poorly tolerated.

So:

MN need to deal with trolls much faster (we have useful suggestions on how they could achieve this)
People should be able to ask straightforward questions on threads
Explicit troll hunting should be deleted and constant offenders suspended
Troll-hunter hunting should be deleted and constant offenders susoended

?