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Support...and condoning things you really cannot support

99 replies

SophiePen · 17/08/2015 20:57

I know this is controversial. It's about 'sleep training' as it's known. My personal position on it isn't totally relevant though I'll state now that I don't believe in anything that overrides the comforting instinct in a parent, or makes a child cry in the cause of totally undisturbed nights.

There are other forms I find far less concerning - no cry sleep solution, that sort of thing.

That's my views out of the way. The issue I am having is this. MN is a site intended to provide support to parents, but where do we draw the line?

It is different, of course, but not so long ago it was considered fine to smack a child in the cause of 'good behaviour' - now it is very much more frowned upon in a social sense and also illegal to some degree, depending on how hard you want to hit them.

I don't feel that being supportive of a parent who wishes to smack their child as some sort of plan to make them behave, would be in the interests of the child or the parent concerned.

I also feel this way about people leaving children to cry, or not lifting them up when they cry, and it makes me very uncomfortable indeed to see threads about CC and even occasionally CIO where people are offering support for this sort of system.

I am NOT someone who posts about child abuse on these threads. I try and stay polite, supportive in any way I can (though not saying I think it is right) and often just hide and try and forget I read it.

It's very painful to read that sort of thing, to me - I remember crying in the night for hours, many many times and no one coming.

I hope one day that our society will move on from not listening to infants when they cry and realise that it is good for them and for us to not ignore feelings in this way, however for the time being, is there any sort of sense of right or wrong in this area, on the part of MNHQ - shouldn't we be encouraging people to respond to their babies, not to do something that makes them cry, and so on?

A lot of people seem to think they have to sleep train, that they are failing in their parenting if they don't. Sometimes they are relieved to be told that they don't have to ignore their instincts and it's alright to pick up the baby and won't 'make a rod for their back'.

What I'm trying to say is that I don't know if there is a place for support with these methods on here. I honestly feel so sick when I read another thread about a chil crying for hours and people saying 'well done' to the person fighting every mothering bone in their body not to pick them up.

To me, it's like people saying 'yay! You need to teach them not to behave like that - it's for their own good, they will forget about it by tomorrow' when a poster is documenting their physical chastisement of a small child.

That would not happen on here. I guess people see it differently, but to me, the pain in reading about it feels very very similar indeed. And I know I'm not the only one.

I hope this doesn't piss people off too much. I know how awful it is not to sleep but I feel that the adult is the one who needs to adapt, not the infant, and you're more likely to get a result that way too.

Thanks if anyone got this far.

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Whiskwarrior · 17/08/2015 21:29

You need to hide the threads, step right away from the whole thing and stop over-involving yourself in other people's parenting choices quite so much.

You're not coming across well here so maybe people feel you're interfering and that's not what they want.

TychosNose · 17/08/2015 21:30

What's your solution, sophie , to a baby who wakes every hour through the night? How is a parent supposed to deal with it?

No one actually wants to do cc or cio, we'd all like to have babies who just magically slept well. Or at least well enough that we can survive.

dickiedavisthunderthighs · 17/08/2015 21:31

I'm glad you were able to work things out with yours. That is the ideal but not always an option for everyone. I feel very strongly that it's not for one parent to judge another. It is NOT the same as smacking IMO.

SophiePen · 17/08/2015 21:32

Why are they posting if they don't? I'm not being like that, I'm being serious. Banning threads about it would achieve nothing.

It probably sounds patronising but would you say that if I was anti smacking and someone was at the point of wanting to whack their child? Would it be patronising to suggest they needed help of some sort? Even if I didn't agree with what they were doing?

I realise people - most people - don't want to hurt or upset their kids. Bloody weird to suggest otherwise, so I'm not - but there are culturally accepted ways, and some of those I find abhorrent, in a sad way rather than an angry way.

OP posts:
Maryz · 17/08/2015 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 17/08/2015 21:33

Newsflash
It's none of your business and your way is not the only way to parent

SophiePen · 17/08/2015 21:33

That was to hobnobs, btw

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Maryz · 17/08/2015 21:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GenevaMaybe · 17/08/2015 21:33

Smacking is assault Sophie.

Sleep training is not abuse.

You need to make a proper distinction in your head.

FifteenFortyNine · 17/08/2015 21:33

I remember crying in the night for hours, many many times and no one coming

So you were about 3ish or older when this was going on? I thought CC is mainly used for babies and maybe toddlers. I agree with you on going with your instincts, my instinct was to learn my baby's cries and what they meant and not respond to every single one. Of course my instinct was to start this when I felt he was old enough. My instinct was to adapt my techniques according to the situation, assessing what was best for me and my DS. So far he seems ok, he's 2, and we all get enough sleep. Some might say it was CC, others might say it was somethign else, I say it was me doing what was best for us.

SophiePen · 17/08/2015 21:34

There are other methods that don't have to involve babies crying for hours.

I have no problem with those.

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HarveySchlumpfenburger · 17/08/2015 21:34

I have a feeling that some of the attachment parenting, anti CC 'supportive' posts on some threads might be coming across as less supportive and more judgemental that the posters intended.

Might this explain why your views aren't welcome on some threads.

GenevaMaybe · 17/08/2015 21:35

Like what methods Sophie?

GGabcd · 17/08/2015 21:35

So you admit you are no kind of expert.

So what is your point?

Hide the threads if it upsets you. It upsets me. Guess what? I hide the threads.

See how easy that is?

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 17/08/2015 21:36

It doesn't matter whether you have a problem with them or not it is now of your business
CC is not illegal thank god

Maryz · 17/08/2015 21:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

2down1togo · 17/08/2015 21:37

Sophie, I can sort of see where you are coming from. But, as a mum of a 18 month old very poor sleeper, surviving on 5 hrs broken sleep every night is no good for anyone. Having to put your baby back to bed before 8 am because he's so tired that he can hardly eat his breakfast is hard. Being on a short fuse with his big sister because I'm permanently exhausted is tough. I could go on. I don't often comment on threads on mums net but to be honest this has riled me. Hmm

SophiePen · 17/08/2015 21:37

Look I have to go and do bed with mine now. I've said my bit. I don't have 'the answer'. My personal answer involves co sleeping, responding as quickly as possible, so making this easier on ME, by being right next to the child. And I believe there are other solutions for other people.

But the thought of a child crying, a parent wanting to pick it up and resisting, and this being lauded on a parenting site, makes me very uncomfortable indeed.

I am sorry if I've pissed people off. Think of it as my issue if you like. perhaps it is.

I'd better go. Sorry - will check in tomorrow if I can face it, and find the protective suit.

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whattheseithakasmean · 17/08/2015 21:37

SophiePen can you be more clear about what you want MNHQ to do? Do you wish them to expunge all mention of a parenting choice different to yours? Have trigger warning on posts about sleeping that might upset your delicate sensibilities? What, exactly?

I don't really give two hoots for the sleeping threads, I have teenagers, so all this sleep malarky is ancient history to me. As will be for you in a few years, and you may even blush to remember that you were so sanctimonious over such a very small and innocuous stitch in the vast tapestry of raising a child.

hobnobsaremyfavourite · 17/08/2015 21:38

What sanctimonious navel gazing self absorbed bollocks

TeddyBear5 · 17/08/2015 21:39

Dispite your experiences as a child you grew in to an adult with one hell of a sense of self importance op Hmm

Why does it matter that you don't agree with this method of parenting? It really is not your business. I disagree with lots of parenting ways but I move on and keep my nose out.

Maryz · 17/08/2015 21:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GenevaMaybe · 17/08/2015 21:40

Yes well Sophie it's too late too be doing bed now anyway. So your kids are probably knackered.

But enjoy your co-sleeping for YOU

FujimotosElixir · 17/08/2015 21:40

I have a child on the spectrum, which often mean behavioural eruptions uncontrollable meltdowns can occur, sometimes when theyve entered hysteria, past the point of any form of verbal reasoning , sometimes aggression a short sharp smack on the bum has "snapped" them out of it , in extreme situations and the situation soon diffused. I'm sorry you had those experience as a child but please don't tar everyone who's smacked a child as a child abuser its innacurate and offensive.

SophiePen · 17/08/2015 21:40

Self importance? No, I just feel very strongly about this particular issue.

How does that make me self important any more than anyone else with a view on things?

Sorry, I really must go, teeth are being done, babies are escaping..

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