Is Mumsnet HQ evil or not very bright.

[TiggyD]

As some of you may already know you're allowed to call transgendered women "men in dresses" and refer to them as "he" and "him.

"So some men dressing as women..." as one posted said in relation to trans women got the reply from RebeccaMN:

We agree that this post is in poor taste but we don't tend to delete on those grounds because it would be really hard to know where to draw the line.
The truth is, we don't think we should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive and what they shouldn't. In these instances, it's very rare that a tasteless comment is left unchallenged, and we would highly recommend that you put forward your point of view on the thread.

Well firstly I think Mumsnet should draw the line at discrimination of a protected minority group.

Secondly, if MN don't think they should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive, maybe they should ask a representative from a human rights or anti discrimination group? Misgendering is always wrong.

Thirdly, is it rare an tasteless comment is unchallenged? Now the trans people on Mumsnet refuse to post on trans related threads who the hell is going to challenge them?

Fourthly, that post was unchallenged. Have a look at the thread.

Fifthly, "tasteless"? "TASTELESS"?! WTF? Tofu is tasteless. Would MNHQ describe calling people spastics or coons or faggots as tasteless? Misgendering is a put-down towards an entire minority. Dismissed as tasteless.

A quick look at a quote about the 2010 equality act:
"harassment - unwanted behaviour linked to a protected characteristic that violates someone’s dignity or creates an offensive environment for them".

Is there harassment in trans related threads on here? Is the dignity of all transwomen violated by referring to them all as men in dresses? Bleedingly obviously yes. Does it create an offensive environment for them? How the hell could it not? Does Mumsnet do anything to stop it? No.

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It all makes me wonder if the people of MNHQ are deliberately letting all this unkindness and discrimination and harassment go on because they evil, or because they don't know any better.
I think I have it. I reckon it's like the Ricky Gervais thing where he started doing "Mong" faces. All kinds of people told him it was offensive and an unkind name for people with Downs Syndrome but he refused to accept it. I think he thought that as he believed himself to be a good person, and he used the word mong, that mong had to be an acceptable word because he was good. I think it must be like that in MNHQ. They believe themselves to be good people and when they allow people to call transwomen men on thier site it's fine because their belief in themselves being good trumps all the views of the victims.

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One question for MNHQ that I alluded to earlier. Have you ever asked any kind of trans, human rights, or anti-discrimination group about how to treat trans people?

Have you?

Ever?

^^ one of these things is not like the others.

Isn't the whole point that the OP could be a man or a woman and the only thing that decides it is whether the OP feels like a man or a woman? Who are we to decide whether the OP is a man or a woman? Also, since there is (supposedly) gender equality, there could be no objective difference between a transwoman and a cis man or whatever?

Is Tiggy having another tantrum because he can't shut women up? Any disagreement with a women is shutting up all women?

Spot on FloraFox!

The only possible explanation for a man with no skin in the game to be this wound up constantly about transgender issues is because they're using a transgender agenda to try to dominate women

Or because they find the intolerance towards a minority group disgusting.

I am not gay yet I find homophobic comments disgusting.
I am not an ethnic minority yet I find racist comments disgusting.
I am not transgender yet I find transphobic comments disgusting.

I am certainly not trying to dominate anyone. Making the accusation of trying to dominate women is simply taking an easy pot shot.

TiggyD the point there is that you can't 'decide' you're black (unless you're Rachel Dolezal). Nor can you 'decide' you're disabled (you can choose not to define yourself as disabled but if you fit the legal criteria you can't change that).

I see OP's point, that it has been left to stand as statement of fact without recognition of how offensive it could be. The comment itself though at first appears to be more bad observational comedy than an attempt to make anyone feel marginalised. As half this site is like that, where is the line drawn? on further analysis I think it clearly has become offensive. But HQ aren't moderators of free speech and nor should they be.

?

Anyway, I've reported my post. It might take a few days for an official response as it requires Mumsnet to have an actual hard opinion on something.

You should have emailed them anyway.

Lougle but you can decide to have a bit of a go at being trans?

I have Sparkling. In far less subtle words than here.

As far as I am concerned, Caitlyn Jenner is a woman.
As far as I am concerned, Chas Bono is a man.

Any disagreement with a women is shutting up all women?

You're not disagreeing, you trying to have posts deleted and dictate how women are allowed to speak about important issues on this forum.

Great. No need for this thread then.

No, I'm saying that you are presenting being trans as an objective quality but it's not. It may be that someone feels that they're in the wrong body, but it is subjective.

I can see both sides of the argument.

I also find intolerance to Minority groups disgusting Soup but Tiggys agenda goes beyond that to saying women and trans women are the same.

They're not. Women are entitled to female only spaces.

Tiggy should be arguing for trans spaces instead of just trying to infringe on female only spaces.

It's far too simple and detracts from the argument to say women and trans women should share the same space instead of insisting on a third.

Months ago it said it would change its "MNHQ have commented on this thread" message to "MN has commented on this thread" as it agreed that MNHQ is singular not plural.

Nothing has changed

So I conclude they are evil

No [kitten] forthcoming either Bit.

Are you going to stop using 'cis' on threads then?

How about trans men then? Presumably you would be happy for them to be in a female only space, despite looking exactly like a man with all that entails for women who would be uncomfortable around a male for whatever reason...?

Sparkling *

• I don't think we are helping!

Not if it made women uncomfortable, no.

I always wanted a [pinkvisor] after the Elderly Korean Lady thread.

I don't think anyone should be third spaced! they should be where they want to be & included fully wherever