The relationship board going downhill

[Sallystyle]

I was shocked by a certain thread which I read yesterday where the OP was treated like shit and instead of getting support she got a good kicking instead. Of course some posters gave amazing advice and were understanding but far too many posters were simply arseholes.

I am pretty sure this has been brought to your attention before MNHQ. It often resembles AIBU and I know I am not the only one who is now put off by the thought of asking for support over there.

Sure, some posts are deleted but the damage is already done by then isn't it? People should be able to trust that they can post on the relationship board and not get treated in the same way they would on AIBU.

So my question is why is this allowed to go on? As a rule I hate heavy moderation but when posters are no longer comfortable seeking advice isn't it time to look at other ways of getting rid of the AIBU vibe that is seeping through over there?

There are some fantastic posters on that board who are smart and compassionate and it is such a shame to see the increasing nastiness going on.

you don't have the right to trash other people's You don't have the right to tell other people what their rights are

There are some wonderful, insightful people (Cognito springs to mind) who post rational but kind posts. This is contrasted by some very curt and bolshy posts. I agree that many abused women are on a bit of a journey and it's not simple or quick to make a shift mentally from abused to a person who recognises the abuse or their options.

The relationship board can be very unforgiving for women who lack the strength to make the moves they need to.

I don't know why anyfucker got the two puzzled faces there.

I don't see women attacked for not leaving. More often then not, a number of posters help the OP see the situation differently. That 's a huge step. Then because these things go in cycles, the thread sinks. that is what happens nine times out of ten. It doesn't mean that posters grudge their time. Even if the thread sinks because the OP doesn't come back, I still think that the OP will be more aware the next time her H behaves in an abusive way towards her.

I don't see that much bad advice, or if it's there, I don't observe it. Some of the worse advice I see is, after an OP details in about 650 words the depths of her despair living with a spectacularly intransigent, critical, controlling partner "sit him down and talk to him and tell him how you're feeling". or "try counselling".

That's where I'd suggest a face! I think it's hard for some women with reasonable Hs to fathom a partner that won't even discuss a problem, who will deal with their request to renegotiate any thing at all with anger and blame volleyed back instantly.

I stay off the threads about alcoholism, gambling, bereavement, and many others if I don't understand. As others upthread have said, some will race on to say something thoughtless that could cause as much harm as good, but most advise is at least a little good, and most advice is support.

I agree with pp who said that aibu should be separated in some way from other parts of mn.

People seem to exist within aibu to a huge extent, so that they title their chat threads 'to ask for present suggestions' ,they show that they haven't noticed that the grammar they are using is not appropriate for the section. Or they ask if they are 'bu' for a restaurant recconendatuon in aibu, when its not the appropriate place, they should be taking their traffic to food or travel.

I guess people do it because of traffic tho... Some of the sections are so quiet it's hard to get a thread going in them. But if you turn it into an aibu, at least you don't get a dead thread.

If I post what I want to I will get deleted. So I will just sit on my hands.

Everyone sees different things in individual posts. That's the problem with the Internet, nothing is given with the context of knowing the attitude of the poster is I.e angry, flippant or joking. We quite often read from our own perspective rather than how it was meant.

I can't imagine a single encounter with a counsellor or women's aid worker that would be conducted in the same way as some threads go which suggests that perhaps the MN approach to relationship counselling isn't always brilliant.

There is no accountability for posts (no professional body as in counselling) so a normally considerate poster can post on an off day in an irritable manner or post blatantly harmful advice and it's allowed to stand. The board has helped many people without a doubt but I don't think ignoring the downside of it just because there is also good advice, is responsible.

The only accountability that I can imagine working on an informal basis is for individuals to be a little bit humble in their opinion of their own authority to post.

*Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support^ A very wise caveat.

Mumsnet is not, and has never purported to be, a counselling service. There is a very clear disclaimer to that effect.

Comparing it to a professional foundation is unjust. It is quite clear that what people are giving is on the whole borne of their own personal experience and viewpoint, although I know there are a few respondents who are speaking from a more professional viewpoint

For that reason, posters need to take what they need from a thread and be aware that if they are posting sensitive information eg. detailing how children are caught up in the middle of dysfunctional relationships, then they should expect robust commentary on that

I try advise like women's aid would. Because I tailor the advice for where the poster is on the journey to realisation.

I don't see that many posters saying "leave the bastard!". What I do see is a lot of posters who think they represent the moderate voice saying 'well I won't say leave the bastard like so many will, tut, tut, they're so extreme, but I think you should sit him down and tell him how unhappy his behaviour is making you''. A pointless post but the contributor genuinely believes that their advice treads the correct middle ground.

What a lot of people fail to acknowledge is that when somebody comes on to the internet with the revelation that their P calls them names, criticises them endlessly, loses their temper with them if they ask for help with housework or childcare, undermines their parenting, makes it hard for them to see their friends, makes all the decisions and controls all the money, then the appropriate advice is not going to be have a pot of tea and some cucumber sandwiches and a quick chit chat about how we all feel.

Advice that can HELP is going to be a brave move for the OP. But brave moves aren't wrong moves.

Also, PS, women don't leave relationships because they were told to by posters on the internet. Even when the relationship is quite clearly abusive and the OP is ground down, miserable, terrified, she still can't bring herself to leave.

So if posters are worried that happy healthy marriages will be destroyed by posters on the internet advising women to 'ltb' they are so far off the mark.

It can take three threads 17 pages a piece to get somebody to the point where they believe that women's aid is for somebody like them, and that they wouldn't be wasting somebody's time if they rang WA

posters are advised all the time to ring WA

But some of it isn't support, that's the whole point. It's sticking the boot in for no real reason and being plain nasty sometimes.

Exactly. That is why I started this thread. It was triggered by reading a few threads in the last couple of weeks where 90% of the thread was all about slagging off the poster and offering no support. I have already said that there are some great posters over their who offer great support and understanding. Sure I think there is a lot of pressure put on posters to leave at times but I know that comes from a good place.

And the way men who start threads are often treated is shocking.

And when I see it happening I often comment on it in the thread as well.

Just quickly....I agree that posters in relationships can become aggressive/dismissive/scathing if an OP doesn't immediately follow their advice to the letter. I'd even go so far as to admit there is probably a handful of instances of me being a bit like that myself...but not too many I hope.

Posters replying on relationships are sometimes incredibly overbearing insisting the OP call the police and so on, as if it's just a trifling technicality rather than a grave life changing event. That does bloody annoy me.
However, we are not a professional advice service here on mumsnet. We're not counsellors, social workers, aid workers, psychologists or therapists. Well some of us might be, but that's not the capacity in which we are here.
I'm not sure complaining about how people offer advice is quite fair.

I have been avoiding it for a while, but I think a contributing factor might be the fact that relationship problems are all in a way similar - loves me loves me not, OW, money.

So it can be that posters blend into one and the 'Why exactly are you in this relationships and what does he have going for him' frustration of some carries over and over and gets vented on a similar thread.

OR maybe that's just me. I don't post here anymore.

But I do agree, LTB can be wheeled out rather quickly.

Fwiw I don't think relationships is what is used to be. There are loads more goady fuckers who just seem intent on upsetting op's and I can't actually figure out why. HQ - thanks for reassuring about reporting, I do tend to feel bad doing it

AF is right to an extent - if we all avoid the board then I feel like we let the fuckers win. Maybe we should all be trying to be as supportive as possible and make a point of posting something supportive, even if it's just a hand hold?

I think it's noteworthy that there are actually a few "long term support" threads in aibu ATM. 3 that I can think of off the top of my head, not a single poster has said yabu and thankfully the op is getting at least some support. But in aibu? It's like being offered a safe, comfy seat and a in a viper's nest. Perhaps it's indicative of what's happening on other boards? Of course it may also be indicative of me talking out of my arse

There is a world of difference between "he sounds like a total prick, LTB" and "have you left/phoned the police/changed the locks yet? Why not? Bloody do it, or I have no more time for you!"
Ok I'm embellishing and paraphrasing, but ykwim. I do find myself facepalming at times.

People who read and comment on those threads really feel it in the moment, and become invested, and therefore frustrated, because their emotional involvement is genuine, but objective. It's often pragmatic and solutions based, which is a shame, because that actually scares the OP away.
She is not about to call the police on her husband. At least, not today.

But...when all is said and done, we aren't Women's Aid, we're Mumsnet and I do think it's a little unjust to have quite sophisticated expectations of how people advise others on here.

Maybe a chat forum just isn't the best platform for it? I dunno.

Thanks for all your posts - we've had a good read. Generally from what we've seen Relationships is a good and supportive board, but we agree that it's not ideal if OPs are being chased off threads or being attacked nastily for not instantly taking advice - if that is indeed happening. Could we ask you please to report (like the wise Olivia has said, we truly do love them) any threads that you think fit this description to us so that we can take a look and have a think about whether anything needs to be done.