What is the rationale for leaving crisis threads up once OP is safe?

[ArsenicChaseScream]

I know there are differing opinions for what should happen before that point BUT once an OP has said they are safe, accompanied or similar, is there not a strong argument for suspending the thread?

Otherwise a lot of emoting seems to happen but I'm not clear of the wisdom/value of that.....

Unless the op asks for if to be removed or it's been reported for a legitimate reason I don't think it's anybody's call to just delete it, why would it bother you ?

You can't expect HQ to babysit the threads ! Why should they have yo keep coming back to threads to see what's happening?

Not deleted, suspended.

And because suicide threads can be very triggering for people also suffering and once the moment has passed there is no value in leaving it open for new posts.

Yy.

I don't agree with threads where the OP has threatened to harm themselves/kill themselves being left up, as they can be/are incredibly triggering for vulnerable posters, and if something terrible does happen, then the fallout of this can be awful.

However, I think if MNHQ are going to allow them to stand, I think they should allow them to stand even after the OP has said they are safe/ok. If the thread is considered a valid means of support, then this allows the OP to return to the thread for future support. It also prevents emotionally invested posters from worrying that something awful has happened to the OP.

I can see why you think they should be deleted, but I think the situation where the OP has declared themselves safe is the situation that least needs deleting.

Maybe there could be a separate area for these threads, then posters could ignore or hide that section (in the same way that people may hide AIBU or other sections). Threads created in other areas like Chat could be moved to the appropriate area by MNHQ, either proactively or after the thread is report to MNHQ. This could be done really quickly and avoid their current issue of having threads hanging around overnight in areas lie Chat. The appropriate area, whatever it's called, could have a disclaimer at the top with contact details for MH services and a warning to posters similar to the one AF quoted on the TAAT here on Site Stuff that's just been deleted ("don't give emotionally or practically more than.....") Threads in that area could possibly be treated like OTBT and have specific rules.

And because suicide threads can be very triggering for people also suffering and once the moment has passed there is no value in leaving it open for new posts.

Yes slimy that's what I meant. TY.

I agree with heartisaspade

Threads where someone is actually threatening to harm themselves are so triggering and upsetting for other people. They are not a good way of getting support and the users who may be trying to help a person won't have any access to support/counseling themselves should the worst happen. Also, as the majority of people on here don't have any training for dealing with people in this state, there is the risk that they could actually cause harm rather than being helpful.

On most forums, I believe standard practice is to delete the thread, and send a standard template message to the user, advising them of where they can get help, and to call the emergency services if they believe there is a real risk of harming themselves. Other posters who may have posted on the thread are sometimes warned not to engage further.

I don't know. I agree that they should be deleted afterwards (also, trolls probably find them and use them to get ideas) but I think only ones describing actual methods or in detail should be deleted when they're ongoing. If you're just saying that you have suicidal feelings or intrusive thoughts, then I don't see why that should be deleted.

Shlep I think there is a distinction between someone posting saying that they are going to harm themselves right now, and someone saying that they have suicidal thoughts at times and looking for support.

I think that the first should always be deleted as if you have reached crisis point, an internet forum is not the best place to get support. They can also become incredibly upsetting for everyone involved and can become very triggering for other people who may be suffering from depression or have known someone who has committed/attempted suicide.

I think the second should be allowed to stand so long as a) there is no discussion of methods, ever and b) people are pointed to appropriate support if they reach crisis point.

Presumably there is a line, after which MNHQ thinks a thread is too harmful to stand, for example if some kind of PRO-ANA thread appeared. There must be a point where they think, actually, this is damaging for everyone involved and the thread would better be deleted.

I do think MNHQ have a duty of care to posters with MH issues, who may not always be capable of acting in their own best interests.

I agree that threads re somebody's suicidal thoughts should be deleted once the OP is safe. But only the ones that have proved the OP was in immediate danger of harming herself and not the ones just about somebody wanting help about thoughts.

Sorry I missed heartisaspade's post. I wasn't aware of those guidelines.

The trouble with allowing suicidal posters to post for support on open forums like Mumsnet is that anyone but anyone can reply and that person replying might not actually be very nice or supportive.

We've had this argument before - many members feel that threads where an op is threatening to commit suicide should be locked immediately with links from HQ to mental health support provided.

I have always felt this and still do.

I don't actually think a poster has to be deliberately nasty to say the wrong thing to someone in crisis- or to say something on such a thread that upsets someone else.

I agree, I think that there needs to be a place for people to post if they are suicidal but I think that that particular post could have been triggering for a lot of people.

I think that not only for others who are suicidal but people (like myself) who are coping with the aftermath of a suicide (my MIL hung herself recently).

I agree slowloris - the risk of saying something "wrong" even if it is well-meant, is huge.

Tbh, I'm waiting for the day someone goes 'oh, you're being selfish' etc on a thread about suicidal thoughts. I think having a place to post specifically if you are suicidal might not work because it means people might feel they can't discuss their suicidal or intrusive thoughts openly or outside of that, and they might not receive appropriate support in that forum (trolls and misery vultures etc).

On the Mental Health Forum, could there be an added bit, in red or another colour, and a larger font/bonded, saying 'if you are in a crisis, feeling suicidal or have thoughts of self harm, or know someone who is, please contact 020etc, or go to X or Y. Instead of just linking to the MH help page? It's more direct.

I agree - I didn't post on the thread because it was far too difficult a situation for me to do so. If I had, even unintentionally I would have brought my own baggage to the thread.

That said, I wish my MIL had spoken out to someone, rather than just going through with it. So very torn on this one.

I work on other sites and the message, where the poster is in immediate danger, is removed and replaced with a distress message, pointing the person in the direction of help. It can't be helpful for the OP to come back later and see how desperate they were. I do think that web sites, all web sites, have a duty of care for the people who use them, and threads like this are distressing for the OP, distressing for people who read them and distressing for those who are posting to try to help. I don't think that MN is the place for people who clearly need support to stop them going over the edge.

An Eating Disorder section is a terrible idea. The whole of MN is post moderated, and this risks being over-run by people who are pro-ana/pro-bul, who will encourage each other to calorie count to lose more weight. It's dangerous and MNHQ won't see it until it's reported. By the time it has, how many vulnerable people would have seen it? Have the staff at MNHQ had training to be able to recognise threads like this?

I'm finding it difficult to phrase this in the correct way, so I apologise if I sound harsh.

I find the threads where someone is threatening suicide very upsetting, because it puts me back in a position of helplessness that I haven't had to be in since I was a child/teenager. My mum would threaten and/or attempt suicide quite regularly and I would end up in the position that hundreds of posters were in the other day - begging the person not to do it; think of the children, just get to tomorrow etc.

In reality absolutely no-one on that thread had any more power to stop what was going to happen than I ever did with my mum.

I feel very uncomfortable that the post was allowed to stand for as long as it did - it is open to abuse from trolls in all directions and there is something voyeuristic about it if it even is real.

As I said, I apologise for my phrasing or if I don't even make that much sense. It's quite hard to explain exactly why I was so uncomfortable with that thread.