Scottish Referendum debate - watch with Mumsnet

[KatieMumsnet]

So tonight sees the first TV debate of the Scottish Referendum with First Minister and key advocate of the pro- yes campaign, Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling, leader of the pro-UK Better Together campaign coming together for a head to head debate for the first time.

You can watch live from 8pm on STV and if you're south of the border can tune in via the STV player.

Fancy watching along with us? What are you hoping to see from tonight's debate? What are your thoughts on the campaigns so far?

If you've decided which way to vote, why? And if not, what will help you decide?

Do feel free to share these, and any more thoughts you have

I don't think that's a fair metaphor Sirchenjin : in such a case, you'd be given (or provide) a proposed contract with the details outlined and you'd negotiate any details you didn't agree on before making an informed decision. But at the moment, Westminster refuses to even contemplate that Scotland might vote Yes and says it hasn't made any plans if it does.

Back up your facts please lady? If all of Scotland's financial services head south, is t that a little narrow minded of them? There will still be a financial sector in Scotland.

So annoying that all the post debate 'pundits' are men. Come on TV channels!

I can't link to sources I'm afraid GlaikitFizzog - my info is based on conversations etc which I've been party too in a professional context. But I do personally know of several very large FS companies who will almost certainly move a significant portion of their operations south in the period after a yes vote.

Narrow minded? On a proportional basis the majority of their clients will be south of the border so from a public perception perspective there could well be strong pressure for them to move. Then you have the practical financial and regulatory aspects. My understanding is that how those will pan out for in iScotland is that they're totally up in the air at the moment for two major reasons:

1. Currency/Currency Union/Central Bank
2. European Union

The answers to those will probably dictate what happens with financial services. Issues like what capital and regulatory regime the banks and insurance companies would find themselves operating under are huge.

Glaikit, I too have been party to such conversations, it is only prudent for them to consider the options and the implications for their business. I think some have been quite open about this in the media.

Such a shame some of us in Scotland , in itv border region, weren't deemed worthy enough by itv border for them to buy this debate.

Central belt power again

Did you manage to catch any online helensburgh? Poor show from Border. Strange that we get loads of regional BBC options on Freesat but not ITV.

Although I have to say as a debate it was pretty disappointing, not well run at all.

The Scotland getting the government they vote for point...

It's not the same at all as an individual voting for a party that loses, every single voter in Scotland could have voted labour (or any party except conservative) in the last election and it would not have affected the outcome of the general election.

More than 90% of Scottish MP can vote against something in the House of Commons and it is passed anyway.

So realistically Scotland gets the government that the rest of the UK votes in and is then reliant on MPs representing other parts of the country to make decisions.

That's very very different to one person voting for a losing party.

So what happens if the central belt vote one way and other areas of Scotland vote another? Does the north of England always get the government they vote for? I suppose it comes down to whether or not you think Scotland is going to overwhelmingly vote in one particular way.

My issue with the "not who we voted point" is, generally, how small do you keep slicing? Orkney and Shetland have never voted SNP...should they declare independence?

I think it probably depends on whether you consider yourself as Scottish, British, both...IME my vote carries the same weight as anyone else in Britain. I don't feel hard done by as a result.

I'd need to check the figures but I'm pretty sure that in the last election Scotland did make a difference - I think without Scotland it would be a tory majority. Mind you, with the current parties it's like "chose which colour of tory you would like, blue red or orange!"

Anyway too tired to think much longer - night!

"chose which colour of tory you would like, blue red or orange!"

Do you think that might change if there was a yes vote? Greens are popular in our local area and they do seem to be gaining momentum, I think an independent Scotland would benefit a party such as the Greens, which personally I see as a good thing.

"I'd need to check the figures but I'm pretty sure that in the last election Scotland did make a difference - I think without Scotland it would be a tory majority. Mind you, with the current parties it's like "chose which colour of tory you would like, blue red or orange!""

It may have stopped a majority, and yes they are all much of a muchness.

I don't disagree that there's not an issue with deciding how small you slice up the vote before everyone's represented either.

But it's still not the same as voting individually for a party that loses an election, my vote pretty much doesn't count anyway as I live in a very safe seat, but it's still not the same.

I don't know. Genuinely - I think we could see a swing either way. There's a bit of an assumption that in independent Scotland would be more socialist than the rest of the UK but I'm unconvinced. My own opinion is that it would depend hugely on how the separation went and we could just as easily swing to the right if things aren't going well and we find ourselves in a recession. Especially with issues like anti immigration sentiment - there is a reasonable amount of that here I think and if, say, our FS industries tanked and we had bad unemployment a more right wing party could make gains.

I suppose I'm not convinced that Scots are these entirely different socialist generous beings who have a very different leaning to the rest of the UK. It could be we just have a (collective) long memory and hate the blooming tories with a passion

you'd be given (or provide) a proposed contract with the details outlined and you'd negotiate any details you didn't agree on before making an informed decision

Precisely my point prettybird - the SNP haven't given us any details. They've given us a vision (as they see it) of the wonders of an independent Scotland ie Head Office have told us we're getting a wonderful new shop - but in reality that wonderful new shop could be in some out of town location you've got no way of getting to, working long hours for not much more money on a zero hours contract. You wouldn't take that job without checking and rechecking the small print, unless managing your own shop was the be all and end all - and yet the SNP want us to jump ship and say 'yes' without answering some of the really important questions.

The papers are pretty unanimous - Salmond lost last night, and the polls seem to back that up. It could all change next time round though.

Totally agree statistically challenged. It's just too easy to say lets spend loads of money and make it all lovely and fair when it's a theoretical discussion.

How will it work in practice, that's what matters.

Do you think we have enough detail to understand how it will work in practice?

Salmond lost last night, and the polls seem to back that up. It could all change next time round though

Just a wee correction: pre the debate DK AD 45? AS 55%, post debate DK AD 26% AS 74%

Obviously the Yes/Nos in the audience thought that "their" side won, it is the DKs that matter.
goo.gl/TzdN6m

I thought the debate was awful, and both sides came across badly, though Salmond I think was worse. Debate format was pretty dire too - shouldn't have had an audience asking questions/having thoughts during debate in that way.

Also thought there wasn't enough focus on why should Scotland be independent. Both sides were more focused on could Scotland be successfully independent, when both sides already agree that it could.

I was leaning towards a no vote......now I know I'm a 'no' No answers from AS, ridiculous statements about aliens, pandas, showing himself up quoting a joke about driving on the right hand side as if it was fact.....cringe!! Smug, sneering, the gentleman who said he was disappointed in him because his remarks were snide was absolutely right! I understand independence is not about AS, but he cannot give any answers to the important questions!

I didn't explain myself clearly enough SirChenjin : in such a scenario, the other party would've come back with detailed counter proposals (or clauses) - not just statements saying "you can't".

I suppose a better analogy would be a marriage break-up: the leaving partner doesn't know the detail of what the final settlement will be but they make the decision to leave anyway. It's up to the people of Scotland to decide whether or not the "marriage" is intolerable and whether they want to take the leap of faith and then negotiate the detail.

I agree with one of the comments I've read on FB that both sides concentrated too much on whether or not we could be an independent country and not enough on whether we should be an independent country.

I still don't know (from the debate or even from many of the more articulate people on here) WHY we are "better together". I don't accept the argument "because we're bigger" as there are many countries that are the same size as us or smaller which are successful (even when you take oil out of the equation). I can understand why we're better together works for England - but I want to hear why it's better for Scotland . Or am I just being selfish?

Neither side can ever offer absolute certainties about everything.

But the no side's tactic seems to be to play on undecided's fear of an apocalyptic collapse of the economy.

Didn't darling already deliver that?

There are no absolute certainties. The issue is trust. There is plenty of evidence that Westminster can't be trusted with Scotland's economy. The Scottish government whether the pre or post 2007 one has proved itself to be more trustworthy.

Re: the currency, it is obvious the 'Plan B' is sterlingisation before a move to an independent currency (which is the preferred option by many in the yes camp). Why both sides don't acknowledge this and debate it, I don't know. Scotland would still be better off than now, and with the red and blue Tories vision of a future.

Feeling slightly smug that I retuned the sat box to get STV rather than rely on the player.

I was left feeling like SirChenjin - the vision for Independent Scotland sounds great & resonates with my heart BUT were I afforded a vote, I'd vote no. Not because I believe that AD demonstrated appreciable positives for the Union (except maybe more tax/NI payers to meet the pension bill) but there is still a lack of practical detail.

Ultimately, it's better the devil you know than voting blindly for a vision which appeals but can't practically demonstrate how it would be achieved.