Scottish Referendum debate - watch with Mumsnet

[KatieMumsnet]

So tonight sees the first TV debate of the Scottish Referendum with First Minister and key advocate of the pro- yes campaign, Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling, leader of the pro-UK Better Together campaign coming together for a head to head debate for the first time.

You can watch live from 8pm on STV and if you're south of the border can tune in via the STV player.

Fancy watching along with us? What are you hoping to see from tonight's debate? What are your thoughts on the campaigns so far?

If you've decided which way to vote, why? And if not, what will help you decide?

Do feel free to share these, and any more thoughts you have

That's an interesting quote squoosh (I don't do twitter so hadn't seen it). The longer this campaign goes on the more I see things in common with the rest of the UK. Some people are very much about national identity though. I'm not keen on the flag waving from either side, it just doesn't seem relevant to me.

Jackie Baillie said pretty much the same about foodbanks on scotnight last night.
Also complaining Scot Gov had took so long to abolish bedroom tax, can't bloody abolish it that's the bloody point.

I'm a non-Scottish, non-English person voting no. He must think he has nothing whatsoever in common with me.

Speaking of Alan Bissett, I thought his tweet the other day was a bit silly 'Finding these days that I feel more in common with English people voting Yes than with Scottish people voting No.'

Not really, squoosh. Bissett's very tongue in cheek, unless you've seen/read any of his work, it's easy to misinterpret the written word.

Oh I know all about him and his work, met him several times in a work capacity. He's a nice guy, very bright, very entertaining, I just thought that tweet was a bit ridiculous.

I'm a fan of Death of a Ladies' Man. Very well written.

The Pure the Dead and the Brilliant was extremely well written (his show at the Festival this year).

Yes, the reviews have been good, would be interested to see it.

It was a full house when I was at his show last week. It was hilarious take on the referendum and both the yes and no voters had equal amounts of piss taken out of them.

He's pretty easy on the eye as well.

I think he sees himself as a bit of a laydeez man, very flirty. Hence the book title I suppose!

"He's pretty easy on the eye as well. "

Ha, you're no kidding FannyFifer!! He's gorgeous!

Surely the Scottish government could have paid the extra subsidy to those who lost it with the Housing benefit changes - same cost to them as paying the extra benefit - they could even have raised taxes to pay for it.

They shouldn't have to mitigate the bedroom tax though, imposed by Westminster even though it was rejected by majority of Scottish MP's.

Labour Party in Wales haven't done scything about it at all.

anything

The bedroom tax is a really silly policy, I agree. If (as the various MPs claimed) it was about freeing up social housing then it should have been enforced more through policy than punishment. There are some people "hogging" big houses and I personally think it is probably right to encourage them to downsize, especially in areas where housing is scarce.

But for many areas it's not going to work. Edinburgh has something ridiculous like 90 odd 1 bedroom flats coming available each year and 5000 chasing them (disclaimer, I can't remember the definite stats but they were properly nuts!)

I'd have said an approach where, if you were deemed to be in too big a house then you have to go on the housing list for a smaller property/bid for smaller houses depending on the approach in your area. If you don't bid/turn down properties - then some sort of "ok, you have to pay the difference" approach seems reasonable. But the reality is many places don't have the properties for people to move to.

"He's pretty easy on the eye as well. "

Ha, you're no kidding FannyFifer!! He's gorgeous!

Just googled him. Not hideous, but clearly it takes all sorts as he's really doing nothing for me.

It was not a bedroom tax, or all people with excess bedrooms would have to pay it - for housing benefit paid to private landlords, there has been a limit on the claim based on the number of bedrooms required. Why should social renters getting housing benefit be paid an excessive amount compared to private renters?

The amount of money isn't more...because social housing rent is lower anyway.

The problems with it are...

There is only the housing stock that exists, there simply aren't enough smaller properties for people to move into.

The rules about whether a bedroom is spare or not isn't linked to how many people live in a property, but, in line with who can share rooms without counting as being overcrowded. So a family of 4 in a 3 bedroom property has a spare bedroom depending on the ages of the children.

80% of the families affected by the charge have an adult with a disability living there, many of them in homes adapted to suit that adult. Not only are these families already vulnerable, but it's a huge waste of public money to take away the adaptations so that someone else can live there and adapt a smaller property if one can be found for the original family and that's assuming the so called spare room isn't needed for equipment or aids related to the disability.

It appears the 80% is the % of people affected who contacted the CAB - this scottish goverment report quotes the number on page 5 and references it to the Sunday Herald, despite doing a huge amount of its own research later.
So basically bollocks

Even if that estimate is wildly off, you're still talking about thousands of families and a huge bill for local authorities to remove and put in adaptations.

The big issue is the lack of smaller properties, it doesn't free up housing stock if there simply aren't enough properties to move people into, you're then just charging people for having something they have no choice about.

I'm not in favour of it, as I've said upthread. But I think it is actually really poor for a government report to be quoting figures from the press as if they are gospel.

Plus, it doesn't in any way distinguish disabilities - not every person who they will class as ill/disabled will require adaptations to their house. I'd actually expect that the majority won't, or certainly won't require significant or costly adaptations.

"The Gaelic language obsession takes us backwards, rather than forwards IMO - why are we trying to shut ourselves out of the modern world?"

Or another way of looking at it, is that the Scottish Government give a toss about minority groups in it's country and don't like to focus on the majority who speak English. I don't personally speak Gaelic, but I don't have a problem with Gaelic signs everywhere, especially for children being brought up speaking Gaelic. What's the first thing children rely on to learn language? Signs when they're out and about. Signs everywhere in every day life.