Can we have a proper 'woo' topic?

[IndigoBarbie]

Dear MNHQ, I fully believe in freedom of speech and experiences, and as such I go out of my way to assist those who are asking more angelic/psychic etc questions, since this is my real life in a nutshell. Getting sooooo fed up of threads becoming all about others who don't believe and blatantly attacking those of us on thread who want to actively discuss and share and I think a lovely new topic of 'woo' or something you feel is an appropriate title could be provided for us to have proper sharings and discussions.

I'm not a psychologist and haven't followed research since graduating. I'm aware of the mindfulness research because I practice Buddhist meditation but of course I don't put that in the woo category ;) Certainly nothing like that would have been covered on my cognitive science focussed degree course.

Neuroscience is a vast topic and most of it is extremely dry. I don't think a little bit of research into parapsychology esque topics makes neuroscience connected to woo any more than psychology is. Sounds like you just want to shoe horn in the word "science".

I don't really need to add anything more to this thread. Not a making my point for me all by itself.

*it's

The thing I really don't get though is that the woo-ers (seem to) want a place free from dissent and debate. That does not exist on MN - not on FWR, not in Religion, not in AIBU.

Why should woo be treated differently? What is wrong with having the woo discussions where they are, and ignoring or engaging with the dissenters?

Because it's never an actual debate, it's a pile on. The 'non woo-ers' tend to get a little over excited and frankly take it rather personally when others have different beliefs to them.
A debate is good, sharing opinions is good but I've seen it turn bloody nasty on some threads because some posters can't resist getting personal.
A dedicated topic while not banning debate and discussion would allow people to just talk without having sincerely held beliefs and experiences ridiculed.

gamerchick "People can chat amongst themselves about invisible gods that don't exist unmolested so why can't we talk about what we believe in?"

They can't though. Have you ever read one? Even a thread that is quite clearly meant to be a serious discussion of something with like-minded individuals will always get posts from people referencing 'Invisible friends' and 'Spaghetti monsters' and telling us that we are all obviously in need of an emotional crutch if we choose to believe in any form of deity.

I do like the idea of 'the Unexplained' having an area to itself. But that won't mean that people won't make a bee-line for it to tell you exactly what they think of your belief in x, y, or z.

It's almost never an actual debate because facts, reality, and theory support non-woo and the other side has nothing to support their convictions.

Take the latest angel feather thread that prompted Indigo to start this thread asking MNHQ for a woo topic: Some people see white feathers and think they might be put there by their angels. Others say "But those are bird feathers, that fell off birds. Why would you think it's from an angel?". This doesn't turn into an actual debate because the other side can't present anything real to defend their convictions.

Would you rather people be prevented from pointing out that bird feathers come from birds?

By all means point out its a bird feather, I have done myself in a different thread a while ago, but what right does anyone have to dismiss or demean outright a persons belief that it might be a bird feather put there by an entity that they believe in just because that person doesn't believe in angels?

Exactly TheSpottedZebra, anybody who thinks FWR is an area that is dedicated to feminists and is not full of trolls, MRAs or people who just disagree with them and fancy a good bunfight has obviously never seen any of the regular posters threads in Site stuff. The most memorable bunfight I ever witnessed was on the philosophy/religion board.

It really isn't going to happen. Anybody can post what they like anywhere on MN. To get what you are asking for you are going to need to take it off MN and set up another board with password protection and vet each new member.

"dismiss or demean"

Everywhere on MN, you are called out when you make a statement that makes no sense or even highly unlikely. You will be told off in no uncertain terms and your knowledge and understanding about the world, and even possibly your sanity, will be questioned.

Why do you think woo beliefs should be exempt from this?

Ahh the feather thread. I avoided it like the plague because you can predict what would happen. I could have told of the times I've found a white feather during some horrendous times in my life and they've brought me comfort and a lift in spirits.

But it would have been scoffed at and mocked despite the fact it helped.. that is a fact but because there would be those who would break their necks to bleep on about birds and whatnot the fact that it did wonders for me would have got lost... and on we go

I think R/S/P is the right place for woo. I do have quite a bit of sympathy as to why you want a separate area, but do not think it is either really realistic or desirable to shut out alternative voices. I also think sometimes people may want to ask a question and get a range of opinions - difficult to get this if woo v sceptics are segregated.

It is healthy and necessary to have your beliefs challenged if you are making claims that not only have no evidence but in some cases have been actively debunked. It is also right that if someone uses a misinterpretation of a scientific principle to defend their belief (quantum physics anyone?) they should be challenged on it.

I have some spiritual beliefs, and used to have a lot more. I'm more interested in finding truths than maintaining beliefs - if i'm presented with evidence contrary to my beliefs i will and do change my view. I can only do that if i allow my beliefs to be challenged. If i have a strange experience i would like to hear all possible explanations for it, not just the ones that may sit comfortably with my world view.

That said, there should of course be room for discussion about spirituality, the possibilities, personal experience and about ideas, without the discussion being purely about evidence (i think it is a shame that there is very little philosophy on the R/S/P board). There have been several threads in the last few years that were purely woo, and sceptics were asked to respect that, and on the whole they did - i think this is the way to go, and it seems to work for the Christian prayer threads etc. That said, threads full of people agreeing with each other generally seem to die a death quite quickly!

"It is healthy and necessary to have your beliefs challenged if you are making claims that not only have no evidence but in some cases have been actively debunked. It is also right that if someone uses a misinterpretation of a scientific principle to defend their belief (quantum physics anyone?) they should be challenged on it."

^ This.

Côte I agree bunfights happen all over MN but you must admit there is a special type of vitriol reserved for anything spiritual!
Nothing should be exempt from debate, it's what makes this site good.
BUT everyone should be able to feel free to talk about a chosen topic without getting trampled on. Disagree, debate but

Fecking phone... resists urge to say it's possessed
... Debate, disagree but allow others to actually talk without feeling the urge to show superiority by dismissing out of hand.

I would love to have an unexplained topic, I love all the ghost story/UFO/Slenderman threads. I don't actually believe in any of that stuff, but you don't need to to enjoy the stories.

Surely Religion/Spirituality is the right place for angel threads?

I find myself idly wondering whether non-monotheistic woo fans ever get into spirited (hah!) arguments with the monotheistic religious posters? (I wouldn't know, sadly, as I hid the spirituality board.) Both factions have a marked tendency to mistake rational criticism for personal attack, yet they are in clear opposition on the fundamental principles of their beliefs.

So do you row amongst yourselves, or just pussyfoot around one another without asking any hard questions? I am just idly wondering, btw, no need to answer unless you want to.

I love the spooky threads, and it's a shame they usually appear in chat and are lost.

the older / younger brownie story... the MNer who saw a werewolf... bring it on :)

I've found a white feather during some horrendous times in my life and they've brought me comfort and a lift in spirits.

See, gamer, finding a feather and taking it as a reminder that the world's still full of beauty is very sound psychology. Taking it as evidence of angels, not so much. This is why woo does definitely not equal neuroscience.

I use imaginary helpers as a self-compassion tool, as recommended by various renowned psychologists. I don't believe they really exist, but they help anyway - my own mind is doing all the work.

... and I fail to understand why my statements above are taken as 'attacks' by woo fans.

Oh, I loved the werewolf thread I was even able to make real-world contributions, without once invoking woo or being told off! (Proof that miracles really happen )

Please no woo topic the odd thread is fine but not a whole topic.

Garlic I don't tend to post much on the spiritual boards, I go on another forum altogether though. I can only speak for myself and the few Pagans I know personally and on the boards I follow but we all tend to treat each other's beliefs with respect. We discuss aspects of it of course but it's usually with a more open mind. I've never seen anybody's opinions being shouted down or sneered at. There are people known in the community to he rude and dismissive of Wiccans for example but they tend to be the minority, and avoided as much as possible because it's impossible to have a conversation with them.

I think it would be a good idea, then people irritated by it can always hide it.

Certainly looks like there's lots of interest. Do let us know what you think, especially regarding how 'woo' or 'unexplained' should differ from religion and spirituality. I will put it to the Very Top of MNHQ. (although they probably ALREADY KNOW... doo-doo doo-doo etc...) Sorry!

Noo to woo.