HemmingGate: To ban or not to ban, that is the question MNHQ

[CarpeVinum]

Some of us would like to know if a certain politico will be banned, proper.

No rush.

We know you have a lot on your plate with ... stuff.

(I probably got two quotes mixed up in subject line. Don't panic! It's me not you. Am philistine. Italy is wasted on me. Not keen on art, prefer shopping.)

Babies in this country are eight times more likely to be killed than any other age group in childhood.

That is one of the saddest sentences I've read in some time.

And yes, that is the kind of think that ought to be debated with him.

Because he insists that babies are not taken for any good reason, no they are 'targeted' to meet fictitious adoption targets that he makes up on his spreadsheets and then uses to terrify individual women.

So many people on that LibDem website that tiredmamma (I think) linked to were saying 'well! What we learn from this is never tell your GP or a SW if you are having problems!'

These are - presumably - intelligent and well educated people.

HE IS NOT A BUFFOON. HE IS DANGEROUS.

Exactly Spero, which is why I am here in the first place. I wish I was articulate like you lot, I get so angry when a 'clever' man uses his cunning to pedal an agenda which is dangerous to women and children. I do say clever as well, this only falls down because people can be arrogant and unthinking too, which is such a waste of a good brain.

sorry, I don't want to hijack the ban or not to ban thread.

I am just finding it so bizarre; we have such clear and compelling evidence of his behaviour but he still manages to apparently get away with being a chortle worthy buffoon.

O well. I am going to email the information commission tomorrow with link to @tim's piece and Guardian. They came down on me like proverbial ton of bricks when I had two files stolen from my car so hopefully they will be interested in a wilful misuse of personal data.

the path is windy but it might just have led us to a place loveliness...

This is an EDM by John Hemming which is quite astonishing.

Early day motion 1271
Print versionOpens in a new window
MICHELLE FREEDMAN AND THE LONDON BOROUGH OF BARNET

Session: 2012-13
Date tabled: 16.04.2013
Primary sponsor: Hemming, John
Sponsors:
That this House notes the withdrawal of care proceedings against Michelle Freedman by Barnet Council; further notes that Barnet Council has caused psychological harm to Michelle's elder daughter; further notes that had she not left UK jurisdiction both her daughters would have suffered further psychological harm; further notes that Ms Freedman is a family court barrister with over 10 years' experience and she left the jurisdiction because she was aware through her experience of similar cases that any local authority in this situation would be likely to invent allegations against her in order to win the case had she remained; further notes that legal proceedings were initiated because Ms Freedman had made a complaint against a social worker; further notes that Barnet's case included a criticism of Ms Freedman that she had done what she had been asked to do by Barnet Council which it then claimed put her daughter at risk and that the rules of estoppel should normally have prevented this being used against Ms Freedman; further notes that the Government intends to reduce the access of parents to truly independent assessments which will make it easier for local councils to win cases by making things up; recognises that if a barrister has so little confidence in the system that she leaves the jurisdiction to avoid being subjected to false allegations by a local authority there are serious difficulties in the system; and calls for parliamentary committees and the Government to review this issue.

and she left the jurisdiction because she was aware through her experience of similar cases that any local authority in this situation would be likely to invent allegations against her in order to win the case had she remained

If he won't debate, I want to know why not.
How on earth is he permitted as an MP to say this in Parliament? To accuse ANY local authority of INVENTING ALLEGATIONS?

aaaaarrrrg!!

LostInWales

Sent you a PM, about twitter. Sorry, terribly busy these days! DH at home is worse than taking care of three children!!

and she left the jurisdiction because she was aware through her experience of similar cases that any local authority in this situation would be likely to invent allegations against her in order to win the case had she remained

Spero, this is incredibly disturbing... :(

Yes. He says 'any local authority'. This is a clear allegation of systemic corruption that HE MADE IN PARLIAMENT and everyone seems to think 'o what an odd jolly little man he is!'

I find it incredibly disturbing on every level.

What else is known about this case (Michelle Freedman)?
What happened with that motion?

Unless there is any kind of evidence of any substance to what he is alleging there, I just can't see how this was allowed to stand.

and she left the jurisdiction because she was aware through her experience of similar cases that any local authority in this situation would be likely to invent allegations against her in order to win the case had she remained

Woah! One minute I'm on MN and the next minute I'm on one of the ... more interesting... corners of the Home Ed world online.

And yet, Still here on MN

Fuking hell that sounds eerily familiar.

She seems to be back in the UK now and practising from her tweets. So presumably not that scared now that a LA will make stuff up to steal her babies.

Either I have been completely deaf, dumb and blind to such corruption in the past 15 years I have been a family lawyer or this is just more scaremongering nonsense.

In 2012 she reported herself that her former partner had abused one of her children. So the LA were hardly 'making things up'.

Here is another blog which says the solution is NOT to report any abuse of your children.
rotemutter.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/what-the-case-michelle-freedman-vs-london-borough-of-barnet-child-protection-really-tells-us/

You will be filming this debate , won't you ?

For those of us too far away.

O yes. I think it should be filmed and You Tubed.

The interesting thing about that blog I linked re MF is that after discussing her case it goes on at great length to discuss the case of German mother who was forced to hand her child over to her ex who was sexually abusing her. Thus the Judge and the doctors must have been 'in' on the conspiracy.

So the question is WHY? At least JH says there is a financial motive for snatching babies. What possible reason could there be for a Judge and doctors to concoct lies against a mother in order to make sure her child was handed over to an abuser? What is in it for them? Just the enjoyment of their sheer sadistic cruelty? That would appear to be what the blog implies.

My friends in Wales said they were worried that this was too 'personal' for me and that I wouldn't achieve anything. I said yes of course I do have deep personal antipathy for JH but he is simply a figurehead of a much larger movement and I think it is a matter of public interest to speak out against them.

The protection of children in this country is the responsibility and the business of us all. I don't think any of us should feel comfortable just sitting back and letting the debate be hijacked by these kind of people.

My friends in Wales said they were worried that this was too 'personal' for me and that I wouldn't achieve anything

If it makes you feel any better, I've been getting much the same from my mates. I've quite enjoyed flashing the guardian at them today. Becuase from my perspective, that piece.. is the first real crack in a solid wall of "mainstream media" wall of indifference. So...ha! to those who urged more sleep less

You will achieve something even more substantial with a debate. Thus far his public platform with this has been sound bite based, not questioned and prodded for evidence based. And we all know what happens when he gers asked for evidence.

Hand on heart, who honestly thought we'd get this far ? Especially after such a long hard slog with bugger all to show for it in the beginning.

Achievement has been ... achieved, and with a legal and media break on our side... it'll be much easier to roll this forward now. I'm not saying it will be a peice of piss, but the light is at the end of the tunnel. And it's not a train. You have waited an awfully long time for this, nearly there.

I wanted to ask, becuase I am not sure if I am reading things into it, but this bit from the guardian, is it saying what ai think it is saying ?

He was ever spirited, and that is how we find Hemming when we call for clarification

Cos if it does, there will be hell to pay if that debate isn't on my youtube by the next morning. I'd pay to see it

Spero I wish I had known where you were in Wales because I would have come and found you and shaken your hand. The trouble with people is they quite often say 'it won't achieve anything' which is how lots of people get away with stuff, humans like to seek the path of least resistance and of course your friends don't want to see you hurt. The joy of MN is that there are enough people on here that the ones that say 'fuck it, this is worth a go and if we don't get everything we want we will at least have given it our best' can find each other. I'm no quitter so let me know how I can help.

Hmm Carpe, spirited you say .

Carpe....you my love deserve to be flown over first class for the debate and sit in the royal box thingy.....I will treat meself to a Ryanair away day for the occasion.

I was in Cardiff having the best NYE ever as we just ate chocolate and watched Hot Fuzz which I had managed never to see and was ace. I would love to shake hands next time I am in Wales! I sometimes get sent to Newport County Court as part of my work in the great baby snatching conspiracy. Welsh babies are highly prized due to their Celtic charm.

Carpe, I know our friends are only looking out for us but I find it a bit dispiriting. They asked me what I was hoping to achieve and I said I was hoping to reach out to people like them and just make them think a bit more. They said they wouldn't engage as they don't feel their lives are ever touched by child protection issues. And then it all got a bit heated as I said they should be interested, this is an issue for us all etc. So then I had to apologise for ranting.

I don't know about that bit it bold - do they mean he was pissed when they telephoned him?

Lets make sure we have lots of liquid refreshment on hand for the Great Debate!

Exactly, Lost there was something about it in the context of the bit above...but I wondered if I was reading too much into it becuase I wanted to. The first time I read it I thought the jouno was implying "and he was pissed when ai called him as well", having read it a mere eleventy squillion times for "clues". , I'm no longer sure that is what he is saying.

Right, it has been well tough doing this when the world and its mother has been more interested in Xmas and NY.

Let's see what happens in the press and other ... "entities", now the hols are over, everybody is back to work and the details aren't still buried in the unknown zone.

Plus now the guardian and the legal blogger "went first" as it were, and Hemming made admissions on his blog, maybe bloggers and other news outlets will be less coy and try and get their own angle on it?

My mate had her child care fall through the day before her one day honeymoon, so I'll be knee deep in teeny tinies in the morning, which means bed soon I think or I'll be no match for pre schoolers who know me as The Soft Touch.

Spero and Carpe, I mentioned (in passing) to one of my colleagues wheat I had been up to on the WorldWideWeb and she was which I found quite disappointing and dispiriting too.

?Because JH is a councillor in B'ham ie too far away to 'matter' here
?Because 'who would ever believe anything said online'
?Because 'how do you know who you are dealing with' - fair point that, acturally, you could all be a whole haulage company employing hairy-knuckled drivers called Dave

I get really angry at this abuse of power (by JH, not my otherwise lovely colleague) - we have occasional dealings with Child Protection issues; we have the conversations in the coffee room about what to do in certain situations; we know a lot of people struggle emotionally, with their MH, with lack of coping strategies under stress and of bloody course there needs to be a robust system to take care of families who get reported - we are all agreed on this.
Scaremongering is NOT the way forward - and being the MN junky that I am and know that a lot of people are reading and believing what they read, particularly when it comes from a person of perceived greater insight.
Grrrrr!

Carpe, I'd've thought you'd be knows as Aunty Steel or summat.

Have fun! And share your Cornettos with them - you'll be fine

I just don't understand this attitude 'o nothing will change, so do nothing then'.

Such apathy abounds.

Hi OP, now you know that the secret service never comments on its missions - ok, I may have got that a bit wrong but OliviaMumsnet used to say something along those lines!

We can't comment on other posters but we can wish you all a very happy new year. How's that?