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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
DownstairsMixUp · 24/10/2013 22:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

WorraLiberty · 24/10/2013 22:27

Yes, why wouldn't MNHQ pay mods?

Especially if they're going to sit up all night to help them out?

gamerchick · 24/10/2013 22:27

Man I've never seen full transparency from an admin in all my years of forums.. hats off. Knew you'd still get earache.

If AF had said it was a suspension instead of a ban I doubt any of this would have happened. But it's done now.

Hopefully it's the end of it!

PacificFucker · 24/10/2013 22:27

Oh, I know about passionate debating - I am too scared to be on Good Housekeeping much Grin.

Honestly, you lot, give MNHQ a break. It's their site, their rules - they have explained, apologised for some things and stand by others.
Fairenuff IMO.

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/10/2013 22:28

usual - but even if AF is reported much more, can't we trust MNHQ to disregard any spurious reports?

Maybe there could be sanctions against posters who clearly repeatedly vexatious report other posters

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 24/10/2013 22:28

Noel Depends what your powers arw

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 22:28

If a poster wanted to get a point across so made a personal attack citing how many times another person had had a message deleted, they would be breaking the guidelines.

Just sayin'

morethanpotatoprints · 24/10/2013 22:28

If dunce caps are handed round, I will leave, thats not good.
Rotten tomato and sin bin brilliant ideas.
Maybe when AF comes back because she gives good advice and is well liked as her friends we can perhaps warn her a bit if she seems to be going a bit too far.

Rewindtimeplease · 24/10/2013 22:28

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 22:28

Did the vollunteer mods take it upon themselves to vollunteer? Are there really people out there who offer themselves to mumsnet in a 'by the way if you are ever looking for someone to be a moderator I'm your woman' kind of way?

Blimey.

What makes them thnk they would be an good at it?
What if they get all arsey!
How do you know they are 'right' for the job?

Scary.

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 22:28

I know that Worra, just makes me feel uncomfortable for her.

how would you feel if every time you posted there were a load of Haterz just waiting to press the report button.

I wouldn't come back if I was her.

PacificFucker · 24/10/2013 22:29

And yes, I would love to know my stats

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:29

@NoelHeadbandz

Well yes I wasn't going to say anything but....yes, I AM one of the new volunteer mods

Open to bribes people, open to bribes

As with our other innovations, this may work brilliantly or it may not work at all. We're going to suck it and see because we don't like to see our overnight MNers having to suck up mountains of spam/horrible abusive posts overnight. But if it turns out to really not work, we'll scrap it and try something else.

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 24/10/2013 22:29

Dont MNHQ read the posts before deleting? I couldn't report say worras post now and expect it to be deleted as there is no reason?

Or could I?

Gobbolinothewitchscat · 24/10/2013 22:29

usual - but even if AF is reported much more, can't we trust MNHQ to disregard any spurious reports?

Maybe there could be sanctions against posters who clearly repeatedly vexatious report other posters

passedgo · 24/10/2013 22:29

Hmm I think statistics are a bit misleading here. The reason AF is statistically more likely to be reported is because she has to fight this way.. She's the bouncer at the gate, the bodyguard, the bull terrier that sees past the manipulative wordy goaders and bullies, whether in real life or on here. Of course she's going to get reported more.

If we didn't have people like her bringing perspective, mn would be in lala land.

MmeLindor · 24/10/2013 22:29

After this, I would imagine the volunteer mods have withdrawn their offer.

Yakky · 24/10/2013 22:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 22:30

Volunteer mods?

Wasn't AF 's name put forward for head of that department?

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 22:31

I love mnhq

ps - please delete the thread about AF from the baby names forum! it gives me THE RAGE!

eightytwenty · 24/10/2013 22:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AmberLeaf · 24/10/2013 22:32

Volunteer mods? hmm.

Can quickly go to shit IME.

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 22:32

passedgo

that's just so ott Confused
there are plenty of people who give great advice and challenge opposing opinion without pa

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 22:33

Other MNETTERS as volunteer mods?

I'm not liking the sound of that.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 22:33

Who will moderate the vollunteer mods?

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