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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
DownstairsMixUp · 24/10/2013 23:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

ScaryNutellaFangs · 24/10/2013 23:07

Pot Pourri?

Poundstretcher innit?

IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 23:07

I've been reporting, I keep thinking MNHQ must be getting really pissed off with me doing it!

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:07

@IamInvisisble

Are the volunteer mods just working through the night?

Yup that's right

ClayDavis · 24/10/2013 23:07

It was in site stuff wasn't it? Just after we were invaded by all those spambots. Although I'm starting to doubt myself now. I'm sure I read it but I can't find it on advanced search.

OnemorevoiceforAF · 24/10/2013 23:07

I don't think it is ethical to publish stats about anyone if they are banned from responding. I'm quite shocked, actually.

Also, as others have noted, AF herself did not stir up anything. The stirring up was by others who appreciate her contribution, and mostly over a long time frame.

Finally, how on earth is it possible for several names- including a couple in this quite serious thread (who have just had yet more posts deleted, by the way) to just keep going with nasty shit from one thread to another . And over a long period.

Those of us who use the site regularly get to recognise them. Including people like me, who don't use the term "feminist".

Taken as a whole picture , surely you can see this has not been handled well?

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:08

@Mintyy

I think this volunteer mods thing is much bigger news than the AF ban. Are you sure you aren't trying to hide the announcement on a bad news day?

Well if the last 24 hours haven't convinced you that we're just not that good on short-term strategy, nothing will... Grin

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 23:08

Agreed passedgo

IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 23:08

Pot Pourri's from Wilko's round here! Who buys that shit these days? Confused

ButThereAgain · 24/10/2013 23:09

lol, Moll. Posters who are volunteer mods will have "something of the night about them" in the words of the great Anne Widdicombe.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 23:09

Agreed onemorevoice.

MaryZombie · 24/10/2013 23:10

Wow, I must have blinked and missed all of this.

Just marking place to read when I have time. I have no idea what's a-happening, but I do hope when adding up number of deleted posts that the figures are put down as "so many per year" rather than total.

It would seem a tad unfair to say "we have deleted 50 of X's posts" when she has been on mumsnet for 10 years, as opposed to someone with 49 posts deleted in a month, iyswim.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER · 24/10/2013 23:10

I thought Rowan was a man Grin

She soon put me right Grin

185/72,000 is an insignificant percentage. Given the Topics AF posts in and the fact that she stands up to the GFs and MTs and doesn't allow them to derail a thread - I can't see the problem.

That's without taking into account of things like 5 (or so of them) were probably on the thread that got her banned/suspended - where some very balanced posters cannot see that what she said was a PA and the fact that CFD is one of the GF's...??

I don't think you should be able to namechange in the first 12 months without permission from MN. It wouldn't stop the multiple sign ups, but it would help with some of the GFs.

Also, MNHQ, how much time is spent looking at other sites to see how they are laughing at causing all this trouble. It should be fairly easy to match up their 'boasts' with their 'posts'.

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 23:10

Shame the thread seems to have turned into a conversation about volunteer mods.

AF isn't able to defend herself and Justine and the others have explained their actions.

Shouldn't it all be closed now and a new thread started about the moderators.

colleysmill · 24/10/2013 23:10

I think it'd be a good idea for the vol mods to have a panic button installed in case we get any big threads kicking off overnight - direct to mnhq with a loud klaxon.

I wouldnt have wanted to moderate some of the "big threads" recently (im thinking Penis beaker/Christmas appeal/ exile of AF etc)

DevonCiderPunk · 24/10/2013 23:10

I'm guessing the volunteers... y'know, volunteered, and were vetted. I think we can trust MNHQ here; it fits with the minimal-moderation ethos that made the site what it is.

ExitPursuedByABogieMan · 24/10/2013 23:10

Why would one buy pot pourri is a better question

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 23:10

Well you've all given Rowan the answer now. Harumph.

A man probably wouldn't know where to buy pot pourri whereas a lady would know that Home Bargains, purveyor of tat, is the place you want for wood shavings that smell like a nan's undercracker drawer...

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 23:11

Twatters - whats with the 'B'?

FrightRider · 24/10/2013 23:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 23:11

Onemore I agree and I have reported this thread, as advised by MNHQ.

MaryZombie · 24/10/2013 23:13

I have had about 100 posts deleted over 11 years - I suppose that's not too high an average? Ten a year, one every five weeks?

But it could sound terrible.

Added to which about half of them were to do with TypeNWank and his writers group or jh. So they shouldn't count.

garlicfucker · 24/10/2013 23:13

I was a mod once, on an AOL board when AOL was big. It was a flipping NIGHTMARE!! Sure, I felt all luffly when I'd helped someone to be helped, but blimey! There are an awful lot of paranoid crazies on the interwebs, who are extremely quick to decide a mod has got it in for them, is running a vendetta against them, etc, etc. Every such incident had to be investigated by head office - rightly so, but I was spending half my life defending myself against completely random, made-up accusations.

Not to put anyone off volunteering Grin It was a Good Experience on the whole, though definitely not the couple of hours a day I thought I'd signed up for.

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 23:13

the thread is about AF and!'what's next' - volunteer mods are next

so its fine to discuss here

Pan · 24/10/2013 23:14

and according to reading of Rowan's post, vol mods wouldn't have posting facility - just goal-keeping obvious nonsense and refer to HQ afterwards prob.

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