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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
NoelHeadbandz · 24/10/2013 23:01

Don't worry- when I'm modding, I'm not going to go around banning people willy-nilly.

I'm just going to zap the four nobbers that really get on my nerves, then I'm going to sit back and just do the genuine troll ones

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 23:01

ScaryNutellaFangs

You put it much better than I did.Smile

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 23:01

I'm going to be reporting a lot more posts I think. Usually I just ignore shit but if people are having it held against them, I might as well contribute to the count.

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 23:02

Noel - who are they? ;p

MmeLindor · 24/10/2013 23:02

God, I wouldn't want to be a mod.

They'd have to pay me in more than gin.

I'd lose the plot and go on a Tee-rampage shouting FUCK OFF to all and sundry

bsc · 24/10/2013 23:02

Tis the height, Rowan!

PacificFucker · 24/10/2013 23:03

Oh no, have we now moved on the The Backlash? SadShock[predictable]

Mintyy · 24/10/2013 23:03

I think this volunteer mods thing is much bigger news than the AF ban. Are you sure you aren't trying to hide the announcement on a bad news day?

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:03

@lougle

Hmm...are you sure there was a thread, Rowan? I've used google to do a site specific search and there is nothing coming up about moderation volunteers from MNHQ.

I really am almost 100% sure there was, although you're making me doubt myself now.

We will find it for you tomorrow when people with higher IQs than me are around

NoelHeadbandz · 24/10/2013 23:03

I couldn't possibly say NotYo

passedgo · 24/10/2013 23:03

Anyway, reading between the lines there have been dozens of reports and we don't yet know exactly who from. There has been troll-hunting but that actually isn't an issue. Mnhq also say the reports include complaints that we have an 'orthodox' attitude on relationships, i.e. someone doesn't think it's fair that AF says LTB. We also have a mention about being unwelcoming to men as it could 'possibly be illegal'.

I just hope we get to the bottom of this and if there is any hint of an MRA slander campaign this should be taken extremely seriously. There are some twisted people out there and AF isn't one of them.

And saying that the mn forum isn't set up tech-wise to deal with these things is just so weak.

MmeLindor · 24/10/2013 23:03

Rowan is a gal. A very glam gal.

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 23:04

I believe the question they ask the mods was:

do you frequent AIBU?
'yes'
sorry it is not for you

Grin
RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:04

@Scarymuff

I'm going to be reporting a lot more posts I think. Usually I just ignore shit but if people are having it held against them, I might as well contribute to the count.

Please do. Really. Please. (This goes for everybody.)

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 24/10/2013 23:04

I want a delete button. I will follow Usual around and just delete everything as she goes Grin

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 23:04

I've seen a thread re local editors not seen anything about mods

ScaryNutellaFangs · 24/10/2013 23:04

High profile ROWANs

Rowan Atkinson
Rowan Williams

umm...

IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 23:04

Are the volunteer mods just working through the night?

Altinkum · 24/10/2013 23:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChipMonkeyFucker · 24/10/2013 23:05
IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 23:05

My mum wanted me to call DS1 Rowan.

Pan · 24/10/2013 23:05

policywonk - def. a lovely woman.

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 23:05

I have a test to see whether Rowan is a man or lady;

Rowan, can you please answer this question?

Q: Where would one buy pot pourri?

MilllyMollyMully · 24/10/2013 23:06

Usual, if any poster says to you during the day: "Just wait till night falls..." then you'll know.

DownstairsMixUp · 24/10/2013 23:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

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