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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
trish5000 · 24/10/2013 22:55

I think AF was trying to rescue people. But some of them didnt need rescuing, justing helping along the way. I think she may have overinvested because of her own childhood which she did talk about on one thread that I saw.

I hope her immediate family is supporting her through this.

Quite understand why mumsnet had to do what it did though. We as posters are never fully aware of all the facts, even if we think we are.

ButThereAgain · 24/10/2013 22:55

Agree DioneTheDiabolist. It seems a bit strange and unhelpful to make deletions a point of honour and take them as proof that you have engaged passionately. It is easy to be passionate without making personal attacks.

CarpeVinum · 24/10/2013 22:55

I don't think it is fair to make comments about how many posts she has made, or insinuate that she neglects her family.

Seconded.

I have a low post count. Unfortunatly they tend to be several thousand words long, and I exit from a thread (after making a grand total of ten whole posts) pale, sleep deprived and twitchy and resist the urge to go for number 11 becuase my husband is jumping up and down saying "enuff dis terrible Mammasnet, you no eat, you no sleep, you is da OBSESSED!"

Number of posts isn't necessarily a brillant basis for drawing conclusions about people's neglectfulness. If we had sparkly tickers with our post count under our user names I'd look like an angel and you'd never guess that my family was sometimes reduced to sticking needles in a Mumsnet logo wishing its servers in Hades.

I reckon most people can make fifty pithy to the point posts in the time it takes me to just spell check a single one of mine waffly whoppers.

imofftolisdoonvarna · 24/10/2013 22:55

'she has to fight this way.. She's the bouncer at the gate, the bodyguard, the bull terrier that sees past the manipulative wordy goaders and bullies, whether in real life or on here.'

And she will have her vengeance in this website or the next.

Grin
bsc · 24/10/2013 22:55

usual- MNHQ have always walked invisibly amongst us.
I don't think they've ever made a secret of that.

Altinkum · 24/10/2013 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BIWI · 24/10/2013 22:55

You don't want to sit next to Rowan. She has terrible BO.

VivaLeFUCKER · 24/10/2013 22:56

I want a school report.

MilllyMollyMully · 24/10/2013 22:56

Sorry, late to the party. I'll get me coat.

ScaryNutellaFangs · 24/10/2013 22:56

Fawning?

Welcoming I should say.

If you want to be welcomed back with the warmth that plenty of posters have for AF, then maybe provide the level of support she does to posters in need of her advice.

That is what has become apparent in the whole show- she has helped an awful lot of women get themselves and their children out of damaging situations with her straight no bullshit attitude.

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 22:58

I'm happy for MNHQ to walk amongst us.

What if I piss an invisible mod off in the day
They might zap me at night Grin

member · 24/10/2013 22:58

To avoid speculation which may be erroneous, couldn't MNHQ put a "banned" or "suspended until date" next to the poster's name so it shows up on any thread they've posted on?

There were a number of other posters named as being banned last night during last night's shenanigans & it's unclear whether that's the case or, they have merely stopped posting/namechanged.

ScaryNutellaFangs · 24/10/2013 22:58

BIWI- someone on another thread suggested Rowan was a man

NoelHeadbandz · 24/10/2013 22:58

Carpe are you married to the Dolmio man Grin

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:58

@MilllyMollyMully

I think MNHQ being transparent is great.

Re volunteer mods: I can see you're saying that they will have limited powers (mwahahahaha) but could you just reassure us that they will not be able to join all the dots which make up our personal lives and those of our families? Ie, our RL identities?

And if you ever need to raise funds, I should think you could have some kind of auction for people to find out how many posts they have made in their MN lifetime Shock and how many emoticons they have used. Halloween Smile

They won't be able to see any of a user's data at all. Nothing. Nada. They will be seeing MN exactly the same way everyone else see it, but with added 'ban' and 'delete' buttons.

We reckon you might be right about the auctions though

givemeaboost · 24/10/2013 22:58

hmm. I don't remember any thread and im on here every day and am a panel member, so even when I occasionally miss threads they usually end up in my emailConfused or are you on about the local mumsnet volunteer mods thread mnhq, as that's the only one I can recall.

SecretWitch · 24/10/2013 22:59

I have just reported a thread about AF. Slagging a poster not able to defend herself is not cool.

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 22:59

Please can you at least make sure the volunteer mods can spell?

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 22:59

But Rowan is blates a gin quaffer. That's my kind of gal. OR GUY??? Tis a unisexual name innit?

I am looking forward to fawning over AF. When we get fed up of fawning over her, we can taupe all over her too.

LEMisafucker · 24/10/2013 23:00

Thanks for the explanation justine - appreciated.

garlicfucker · 24/10/2013 23:00

"enuff dis terrible Mammasnet, you no eat, you no sleep, you is da OBSESSED!"

Grin Grin Grin

I hope your DH is okay with the knowledge he's going to be yelling virtually down my earhole the next time I notice it's 4am and I'm still posting!

Scary - YYY

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 23:00

@ScaryNutellaFangs

BIWI- someone on another thread suggested Rowan was a man

This terrible calumny keeps getting rolled out and I will fight against it until the day I die. (Maybe)

lougle · 24/10/2013 23:00

Hmm...are you sure there was a thread, Rowan? I've used google to do a site specific search and there is nothing coming up about moderation volunteers from MNHQ.

Sparklingbrook · 24/10/2013 23:01

This site gives a few posting figures but i have never fully understood it.

imofftolisdoonvarna · 24/10/2013 23:01

Wait, Rowan isn't a bloke?

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