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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
Pan · 24/10/2013 22:45

According to Rowan, the 'ban' choice is one for the volunteer mods. That seems explicit. IT would hasten the banishing of the GFs, prob.

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 22:46

Are we still allowed to say ODFOD? Because that's a personal attack surely? I'm confused now. MNHQ haven't answered any of my questions.

IamInvisisble · 24/10/2013 22:46

I'd quite like to know how they chose the mods too.

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:47

@usualsuspect

I'm just interested as to how they chose the mods.

I never saw a thread about it.

Is that ok Notyomomma?

yy there was a thread usual. We'll try to dig it out

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 22:47

BOF

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 22:48

I have but these volunteers will not have full access and will be working with hq at night, not just left to run rampant

I am on a lot of forums and this is not perfect but is generally fair and well run.

they have said they will scrap it if it doesnt work.

pkease dont make out I am somewhat new to the internet or naive

gamerchick · 24/10/2013 22:48

A ban button?

An edit button.. A hide post or soft delete is really all is needed unless there is a lot of spam during the night.

Volunteers usually work well imo. You get the odd bad apple.. If It doesn't work then it doesn't work.

Regular posters make good mods as they are posters and don't need to rely on reports for the general feel of the place.

Facebaffle · 24/10/2013 22:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BettyBotter · 24/10/2013 22:48

Thanks Justine.

I love AF's forthrightness. I love that on this site she can be called AF and I posted last night because I was genuinely concerned that an apparently permanent ban on AF was part of a MN commercialising and dumbing down drive. But I think the line taken here by MNHQ has shown a fair bit of wisdom, diplomacy and honesty.

Phew. MN is still MN.

Am now a bit sheepish that I was so easily whipped into righteous indignation

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 22:49

Did you just approach posters you thought were all sensible?

Or did you put all our names in a big hat?

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 22:49

I got a PM from MNHQ begging me to be a mod. I turned them down because I found out that they wouldn't pay me in gin and being allowed to sit next to Rowan.

They were devastated but I'm sure they'll recover.

ClayDavis · 24/10/2013 22:50

Usual I think there was a thread asking for volunteers a few months ago. Or at least asking for people to get in touch if they were interested in volunteering.

It could work if the mods remain anonymous. The times I've seen it go badly wrong are where the volunteers post under their usual posting nane with some sort of identifier e.g. mod or different font colour.

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 22:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

DioneTheDiabolist · 24/10/2013 22:50

Northern, it really is possible to post passionately and within the very few guidelines we have here you know.Halloween Hmm

TheFabulousFuckingIdiotFucker · 24/10/2013 22:50

It would only hasten the banning of the GFs if they make personal attacks or obviously troll. They don't get banned now so why would volunteer mods following the same guidelines make a difference to GFs. They would just be there for spam. Boring and a bit useless.

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 24/10/2013 22:51

Usual They cant approach the sensible ones as I didn't get a PM

JugglingFromHereToThere · 24/10/2013 22:51

I got deleted once and felt quite pleased lougle

  • like an initiation into Mumsnet Grin
  • Sometimes I can't quite help saying there's a hairy fecker lurking under that bridge over there - I just like a good fairy story - it's the Nursery Teacher in me Smile

If I became a mod I could just zap them couldn't I ?
Mwahaha Grin
(But only in the dead of night it would seem ?! - actually do not fear I'm too much of a technophobe to apply for extra button pressing powers Grin)

ButThereAgain · 24/10/2013 22:51

Good lord passedgo! If I was anyfucker it would be unrealistic over-praise like that, plus the whole of this over-the-top response to her suspension which would keep me from returning, rather than embarrassment at the revelation of deletion statistics that MNHQ have been forced to make in response to all this clamour. Whoever made the comparison with the weirdness about Princess Diana after she died had it about right. This whole thing is completely extraordinary.

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 22:52

I'd like to know who there are tbh.

I don't want spies walking amongst us

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:52

There was a thread!

I just can't seem to find the right Gmail search term to unearth it right now

But there was definitely a thread, we didn't just stick pins into our user record

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 22:53

"I suppose we're going to have Anyfucker thread overload next week when she returns and everyone will be fawning over her."

Fawning? Or welcoming back a valued member of the boards?

Fawning is an accusation thrown about by the jealous.

MarmaladeBatkins · 24/10/2013 22:53

"There was a thread!

I just can't seem to find the right Gmail search term to unearth it right now

But there was definitely a thread, we didn't just stick pins into our user record"

Chinny reckon.

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 22:53

Rowan...

have you deleted the AF baby name thread yet Wink pllleeeaasssseeee

RowanMumsnet · 24/10/2013 22:54

@MarmaladeBatkins

I got a PM from MNHQ begging me to be a mod. I turned them down because I found out that they wouldn't pay me in gin and being allowed to sit next to Rowan.

They were devastated but I'm sure they'll recover.

SandyMumsnet is the desk buddy you want - she has the brownies.

MilllyMollyMully · 24/10/2013 22:54

I think MNHQ being transparent is great.

Re volunteer mods: I can see you're saying that they will have limited powers (mwahahahaha) but could you just reassure us that they will not be able to join all the dots which make up our personal lives and those of our families? Ie, our RL identities?

And if you ever need to raise funds, I should think you could have some kind of auction for people to find out how many posts they have made in their MN lifetime Shock and how many emoticons they have used. Halloween Smile

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