Can we have a proper discussion about the way some threads go?

[MissStrawberry]

I am posting after reading an upsetting thread where someone has an unusual problem and are threatening suicide.

I am really embarrassed at the amount of people who are troll hunting, goading and generally acting like they know this is a piss take and are posting accordingly.

We are all meant to be adults but the posters mentioned are acting like immature idiots to my mind.

While I accept no one can make someone do anything they don't want too, it is proven that on line bullying can make someone tip over the edge and take their own life.

What is this was your child, your husband, your wife, your mother, your friend, your child's friend? Wouldn't you want them to be helped, guided and supported?

It does not matter to you if this person is genuine or not but if they are and they die what then if it turns out it is your child, your sister, your neighbour?

If you post a genuine reply on a difficult thread and it is someone taking the piss it does not matter. It you post a genuine reply on a thread that someone is piss taking on it could help someone else.

If you post a cruel or goading thread on a thread that is genuine then you could be adding to their already fragile situation and while you will move on and not give it a second thought it really could mean the end for someone else.

I expect plenty of, it is their own choice, no one can make anyone do anything they don't want too, there must be other issues, etc etc etc but if you are that dismissive and care so little why post at all?

Mental health is not understood by so many people. Even now people say pull yourself together and think you choose to be depressed. Emotional problems the same but while there are supposed adults posting such disgraceful crap I fear for everyone who suffers now and in the future.

One day your child could be posting for help. How would you feel if they were ripped to shreds?

MNHQ - I think you need to have someone permanently on a thread like that as there are many posts on that particular thread that really should be have gone hours ago.

I have long argue for suicide threads to be locked down. It is not on to ask strangers on the internet to support you.

That's not how I saw anyone on that thread Beer. Not everyone needs to have Asist training to know that engaging with a person with suicide ideation should be done with tact and caution. And I think most, if not all MNetters know the guidelines on trollhunting. How do you know for sure this was a troll?

Tee, I read the post when it appeared and reported it immediately. MN has sent me a message saying that they have no evidence that this is a troll and have passed on some info they hope will be of help to the poster.

Trolls love MN because of it's lack of moderation and it's name change policy.

In order to have less trolls you'd need to get rid of one, the other or both.

What are you willing to give up?

Minty, I understand that these threads, like many, can be upsetting to read. However they have also been an invaluable and sometimes life saving line for those in need. The MH forum is evidence of that. MN instructs members not to invest more than they can afford to give emotionally and this is good advice.

I spend a lot of time on the MH forum and FWIW I think there's an enormous troll on there at the moment talking about suicide, but I don't engage. Mostly there are genuine posters who need support. In my darkest hour I posted an "I want to jump off a bridge" post, but I, like most of the genuine posters on MH used the support and listened to the advice and stayed on line to talk.

That's a lot different than coming on and posting a ranting thread, relating it to cocks and saying you're going to blow your head off. If you can't tell the difference then that's your issue.

Neither to be honest Tee - both have their place.

It would be nice if 'report' posts could be acted on more quickly. I wonder if it would help to have 3 categories instead of two, one marked URGENT.

I don't know that it wasn't a troll. Indeed I suspected or maybe hoped that it was. I reported it as soon as I saw it and it was a single post then.

However, as I was unsure I went back to post a link to the Samaritans. I was shocked at the replies at that point. If in doubt posters should err on the side of caution and adhere to the rules. This keeps people safe while maintaining the integrity of the site. I like MN as it is.

Excellent idea about locking the thread Beer. I read that thread and felt uncomfortable with it - too many people treating the OPs' issue as a joke and something to be sneered at or assuming it was a troll - but it may well not have been, and I think he had a point with what he said. Is the thread still running or was it deleted in the end?

And yes, to be fair there is also an excessive amount of handwringing also on these threads.

It is still there TRF.

I'm not going to get drawn on a particular thread but I agree 100% with Dione about not troll hunting.

As regards lock down... I am sure MN works to some sort of industry guidelines for dealing with this type of post. I trust their decision.

I am not an expert and recognise my limits in dealing with the type of post that you are discussing. I will engage if I think it's helpful (usually a poster I can have some empathy with). I don't feel the need to plunge in and post unless I have something helpful to say. It is a bit like a car crash watching the well meaning but dangerous, the troll hunters and the emotional congregate however.

Engaging with suicidal people online is dangerous . It is. Your post may be hugely helpful ...the next one to read may well not be .

I would like to see in the MNHQ guidelines a statement that any acute suicide post be directed to a range of helplines like Samaritans . And then deleted .

Most of responses would be kind and considerate .......but others out there can and will answer with cruelty or misunderstanding .
No mental health forum will allow suicide threats online to continue if they are responsible people . It is not the place and most of us are unqualified .
If you feel you want to support then PM .

Hen, same here. I always remember that it's completely OK not to post on a thread if 1) you have doubts if it is genuine; 2) I have nothing useful to say on a sensitive topic (eg I generally don't post on DV threads); 3) it is turning into a complete gunfight; or 4) it raises issues that I find too upsetting for me.

Hello all
Thanks for your thoughts here all - appreciated.

Agree with you bassetfeet. There is no way of knowing for certain whether a suicidal op is genuine or a troll. It is not ok to ask unqualified random internet strangers to "talk down" someone who is suicidal but by leaving the threads up, that is what HQ is asking us to do. And there is no guarantee that people will respond with sensitivity, so that is enormously risky for a genuinely suicidal person. Really, for the avoidance of doubt, the threads should be locked and links to a range of mental health services, not just The Samaritans, should be posted up, along with a sensitively worded explanation of why Mumsnet feels it best to call a halt to discussions on a suicide thread.

I happen to think HQ should do the same on the shall I/shan't I have an abortion threads too. But that's an aside.

bunfight, not gunfight

Thanks Minty locked yes ........not deleted . so info and explanation stands .

I would rather see the troll hunters banned. They disrupt many threads and on this one may have been dangerous.

The thing about people with suicide ideation is that they are not thinking clearly. They are coming from a place of extreme emotional distress. That they inform anyone is a good thing, be it on the Internet, the phone or a bridge or building. The trollhunters on that thread reminded me of a piece in the news a while ago where people shouted abuse at someone threatening to jump off a building.

Trollhunting is not permitted on MN and I think that if MN should do anything, it should ban them. MN does not ask anyone to do anything other than abide by the talk guidelines. The rest is up to the individual. I do not agree with locking threads that upset me or anyone else. Where does it stop? There is a Hide button for that. I and all other users have access to it.