Smacking 'does no harm if a child feels loved': do you agree?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We're wondering how you feel about new research that suggests smacking does children no harm as long as they know it is for the right reasons and feel loved.

The publication of this study - which focused on teenagers, it must be said - is causing quite a stir, with, according to the Telegraph, 'parenting groups and charities [reacting] angrily to the findings, [and] maintaining that a child can suffer long term damage from physical discipline'.

In Britain, parents are not banned from smacking their children but it is illegal to inflict injuries causing more than a temporary reddening of the skin.

So, do you agree that smacking is fine, as long as it's tempered with a backdrop of love and affection? Or do you think that smacking is never the answer? Please do tell.

Platypus - l like your thoughtful post.

I agree with YoniOno's comment yesterday that "...you don't know if there is one hit that will break their trust....".

Being hit does not feel good/helpful/loving, indeed if we encountered a child who said, 'I like being smacked and hit, it makes me feel loved." We would be rightly worried.

The fact that children are so loving and trusting to those who parent and care for then that even in spite of smacks and hits they can still feel love says more about children's love and trust than anything else.

Finally, children are learning all the time. What are 'we' (any one in general) teaching then when 'we' smack/hit/slap them? That if someone does something you don't like/don't want/don't approve of/or have already said not to do, that physically hitting that person is OK.

Whether you love your parents or feel love from them, the teaching aspect is rubbish, and the total opposite of what most parents would want to teach their children.

I haven't rad the thread, but I put money on the following things having been said-

"I smack when they run into the or touch electric plugs[it's always those two] - better a smack than be killed "

"It's not a smack- it's a tap on the hand. It doesn't hurt at all"

"I smack, but we always have a big cuddle afterwards."

Why would anyone think smacking a good idea after reading those arguments?

is there a sex thing going on? Is it more 'acceptable' to have mum hitting than dad? The report slides easily between 'maternal warmth' and 'parenting'.

So is it ok for mum to hit children and not for dad to?

Anything that you wouldn't do to a friend is not acceptable to inflict on a child.

YoniOno, seriously? So once I slapped Ds on the bum (not leaving a mark, he was still in nappies at 3) because he had done something which could have easily killed my other child (literally flung him at nine months backwards in his highchair causing him to hit his head on the marble floor) and I am a pro smacked who should be sent on an nonviolence course? Despite always dealing with other behaviour consistently and non aggressively/violently, using standard positive behaviour strategies etc? Would the same applied if I roared at him even though this might be much more scary if it was loud and I was in his face? Should you really just always expect to be able to say 'now now darling we don't push over babies in highchairs, that isn't very friendly' like Stepford wife automatons who never experience rage? He was right beside me, it happened in a heartbeat, it was over in a second.

It seems as though the ideal is to show our children that we never lose control or do anything regrettable and we always, always contain our emotions. Is that the ideal,though? Doesn't that have its own unhealthiness? Fear and rage are part of the human experience and our job is to navigate these with our children not as saints but as fellow humans who will sometimes err. The important thing is to get back on the road after a bump, not to view it as the ultimate soiling of the perfect journey, surely?

Absolutly not, if you would not do it to your dog why oh why would you consider doing it to your child? It may not do any phsyical damage and I will say I was smaked a handful of times as a child and am fairly normal so it may not harm your charm but does it do anything good? In my opinion it show lack of control, laziness and just basis bad parenting.

"Anythimg that you wouldn't do to a friend is not acceptable to inflict on a child"

Well, that excludes just about every possible punishment then!! Can't see me taking away my friend's computer time/ story-time, telling her she can't play on the wii or reusing to let her have pudding... Nor would I tell my friend she can't go to a party, or ice-skating. And I certainly wouldn't insist she clean her room.

So we're back to "I'm so disappointed in you because..."???

thank you, toomuchpink

I assume those who "just tap" their children in punishment also "tap" their pets, madmac.

I agree with those who say shouting a lot is unreasonable, too. If you rarely shout, your voice can provide as much shock & awe as required.

I wonder if smacking is one of those things where in say fifty years time anyone reading this thread will say that they cannot believe we are even debating this as smacking is so clearly wrong.

I doubt we are culturally ready to ban it yet as too many people do it but I wonder if that day will come.

Because shouting is fine but a tap is violence? If we are going to apply that logic, then why is verbal aggression not tolerable in society? Shock and awe by voice = fine for a child but hey I might as well kill myself because one slap on the bum makes me a violent prosmacker with no respect for my child who will always hate me and feel bitter and may end up in an abusive relationship and with long-standing mental health issues? What ridiculousness.

When this comes up there are almost no posters who advocate for smacking but some who admit having done it and regretted it but pages and pages of going on about how it is heinous abuse and should be outlawed. I've posted on these before and no one ever responds to the idea that maybe sometimes people smack because they were smacked and in a moment they did something they regretted but never want to do again. It's treated like rape or a beating, something that can never be undone and will lead to irreparable damage regardless of the rest of the relationship, context, force etc.

Honestly? Is this sensible? Because if that's what's being said then by all means ladies, don't hold back.

"I wonder if smacking is one of those things where in say fifty years time anyone reading this thread will say that they cannot believe we are even debating this as smacking is so clearly wrong."

And I sometimes wonder if the next generation, having lived through the non-smacking years, where children actually seem to get more, not less, violent, will wax lyrical about the psychological damage done by the naughty-step/ consequence/ negotiation based discipline, and start advocating smacking again!! I really have no idea, but it wouldn't surprise me if, in 15 years, my dd was saying to me "Mum! we don't talk to them about their behaviour any more- that's damaging! We just smack them and move on" (slightly tongue in cheek, but who knows??)

You're not making sense, working. Could you explain what you're so angry about?

I thought some who admit having done it and regretted it was the same as sometimes people smack because they were smacked and in a moment they did something they regretted but never want to do again.

should have put quotes round the italics, sorry

Yes, it's fully possible my children will hate me for shouting at them.

But I know I hate my father for smacking me. Not often, and always with protestations of 'love' and how it was all my fault anyway. But it hurt and humiliated me.

I'm pretty much in agreement with the idea that you can be disciplined through smacking but still feel loved by your parents.

My parents did smack me, but only when I was being very naughty. I don't think it happened very often, I don't remember it. It certainly never occurred to me my parents didn't love me, I knew I'd been smacked for being naughty. Mostly it seems to work as a threat, I seem to recall that the threat of a smack was enough to stop you running riot. In fact my dad shouting used to put the fear of god in me, I don't think he ever had to go as far as hitting me.

My DS is 2 and I have given him a couple of smacks in my time. He went through a phase of being very awkward on the changing mat and it would end up with poo everywhere, in his hands, hair, etc. and me fighting to get him to lie still. Eventually a light smack on the leg would calm him right down. Now he behaves much better and if he starts messing around the mention of a smack has him behaving. This seemed like a reasonable solution to me. I don't know how I would have managed the situation any other way. Either he'd have thrown himself onto the floor and hurt himself, I'd have had to physically restrain him so hard that I'd have hurt him anyway (and got covered in poo), or I could have let him run riot and covered the place in poo. I mean, what would YOU do?

Smacking is never, EVER okay. My dad used to smack me when I was little and to this day it has damaged my relationship with him. He would never attempt to discipline me any other way and as a result I was unable to resolve conflict with others at school (where I was bullied mercilessly) and got into a hell of a lot of fights. To this day, I have trouble resolving conflict and I believe that to be because my dad used to smack me.

But GreyWhites - it shouldn't be an either/or ie I was smacked but despite that I was loved. Surely..as a big-brain species we can work out how to do correctional stuff without hitting.

imo the MOST damaging stuff is done by neglect, or lack of interest in your children, or a total misunderstanding about childrens needs. Hitting them is just an endgame of that.

what would YOU do?

Well, it's just my answer but, depending on the child & circumstances, I'd either have waited - and cleaned up all the poo - or employed holding (restraint) with calm talk. Afterwards I'd have assumed something about the changing procedure was uncomfortable or frightening for him, and tried different conditions until he seemed happy with changing.

I suspect it's largely a matter of parents ambition for their child. To suffer and accept violence is such a poor ambition, or acceptance.

Partners hitting each other is DV yet its seems ok to do it to the children in the household.

If disagreeing with hitting children is being sanctimonious then i'd be happy to be classed as that.

yes, 'sanctimonious badge-wearer' here too!

Ooh, is someone handing our "sanctimonious" badges? Chuck one over here, someone!

me too!